6 ms·

I'd like to see every mention of companies in the news to include the amount of tax they paid in the last year. So in this case "blah blah blah Amazon($0)".

lvh 7y ago
How do you propose to calculate that number? Take it from the SEC filing? Do you suggest that has explanatory power? A labor intensive business with low margins (say, a grocery) is likely to report low contributions, even though their actual social contribution is high (payroll taxes, employing people which allows them to consume further...)
reallydontask 7y ago
I seem to remember Barclays saying they'd paid X amount of tax (it was a lot). Turned out it was the tax that employees had paid. Fair enough, those people depended on Barclays for their livelihood but not quite what people have in mind when they think about the amount of tax a company pays Anyway, you can just imagine how companies would use that figure rather than corporate taxes Good idea though
- granshaw 7y ago
  Wow, how did that go down in the UK? I can imagine the public being furious if Amazon pulled that same stunt here.
  - reallydontask 7y ago
    I don't think people were happy but, as far as I'm aware, nothing has changed regarding the amount of tax big companies pay so ....
  - ptah 7y ago
    UK public has lots to be furious about. it won't make one iota of a difference though. EDIT: global corporations are gods in the UK and effectively above the law
    - egypturnash 7y ago
      Your edit applies to the US, as well. Probably the whole world.
      - ptah 7y ago
        I think the old concept of nation, where a government holds power, is dwarfed by globalised corporations. something needs to happen for people to get sovereignty back from corporations. not sure what though
- lvh 7y ago
  We need some way of computing that number. Different businesses have vastly different structures. Let’s take the flip side of your argument: is it unreasonable for a labor intensive business with low profit margins (classic example is a grocer) to point out how much they contribute to the Treasury directly and indirectly through employment? Why is income tax special?
  - reallydontask 7y ago
    Income Tax is not special but it refers, by and large, to a tax on the profits of the company. In general, people get annoyed if a company is extremely successful and contributes little in the way of direct taxes. Companies like Amazon benefit massively from all the tax (infrastructure, education, etc ...) that is paid by other companies and by citizens, yet contribute little directly. Perhaps, it would be possible to list both separately rather than amalgamated together. A final point is that, to a greater or lesser extent, big companies must have employees but seemingly get to choose the level of taxation they pay.
educationdata 7y ago
It's simply misleading. You try make it sounds like the value a company contributed to the society is the tax they paid, in reality it's just not.
tomschlick 7y ago
Amazon pays a fuckton in taxes. They just get a rebate on R&D hours invested just like every other company that does software/hardware engineering. People bitching about this should look into their own company's finances because I can almost guarantee their company is filing for that credit.
- JetSpiegel 7y ago
  So they pay $0 in net taxes. Is your company paying $0 in net taxes?
  - nwalker85 7y ago
    >So they pay $0 in net taxes. Working as intended? The tax code is designed to encourage this kind of reinvestment.
LeifCarrotson 7y ago
The problem is that we use the tax code as a carrot/stick to cause people and companies to take actions that we want to see. Want a company to donate to charity, or use carbon-neutral energy, or invest in R&D, or take on debt with interest to grow? Tax rebate! But then they do those things and pay $0 in taxes.

lvh 7y ago

How do you propose to calculate that number? Take it from the SEC filing? Do you suggest that has explanatory power? A labor intensive business with low margins (say, a grocery) is likely to report low contributions, even though their actual social contribution is high (payroll taxes, employing people which allows them to consume further...)

reallydontask 7y ago

I seem to remember Barclays saying they'd paid X amount of tax (it was a lot). Turned out it was the tax that employees had paid. Fair enough, those people depended on Barclays for their livelihood but not quite what people have in mind when they think about the amount of tax a company pays Anyway, you can just imagine how companies would use that figure rather than corporate taxes Good idea though

granshaw 7y ago
Wow, how did that go down in the UK? I can imagine the public being furious if Amazon pulled that same stunt here.
- reallydontask 7y ago
  I don't think people were happy but, as far as I'm aware, nothing has changed regarding the amount of tax big companies pay so ....
- ptah 7y ago
  UK public has lots to be furious about. it won't make one iota of a difference though. EDIT: global corporations are gods in the UK and effectively above the law
  - egypturnash 7y ago
    Your edit applies to the US, as well. Probably the whole world.
    - ptah 7y ago
      I think the old concept of nation, where a government holds power, is dwarfed by globalised corporations. something needs to happen for people to get sovereignty back from corporations. not sure what though
lvh 7y ago
We need some way of computing that number. Different businesses have vastly different structures. Let’s take the flip side of your argument: is it unreasonable for a labor intensive business with low profit margins (classic example is a grocer) to point out how much they contribute to the Treasury directly and indirectly through employment? Why is income tax special?
- reallydontask 7y ago
  Income Tax is not special but it refers, by and large, to a tax on the profits of the company. In general, people get annoyed if a company is extremely successful and contributes little in the way of direct taxes. Companies like Amazon benefit massively from all the tax (infrastructure, education, etc ...) that is paid by other companies and by citizens, yet contribute little directly. Perhaps, it would be possible to list both separately rather than amalgamated together. A final point is that, to a greater or lesser extent, big companies must have employees but seemingly get to choose the level of taxation they pay.

educationdata 7y ago

It's simply misleading. You try make it sounds like the value a company contributed to the society is the tax they paid, in reality it's just not.

tomschlick 7y ago

Amazon pays a fuckton in taxes. They just get a rebate on R&D hours invested just like every other company that does software/hardware engineering. People bitching about this should look into their own company's finances because I can almost guarantee their company is filing for that credit.

JetSpiegel 7y ago
So they pay $0 in net taxes. Is your company paying $0 in net taxes?
- nwalker85 7y ago
  >So they pay $0 in net taxes. Working as intended? The tax code is designed to encourage this kind of reinvestment.

LeifCarrotson 7y ago

The problem is that we use the tax code as a carrot/stick to cause people and companies to take actions that we want to see. Want a company to donate to charity, or use carbon-neutral energy, or invest in R&D, or take on debt with interest to grow? Tax rebate! But then they do those things and pay $0 in taxes.