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Censorship is a step in the direction of fascism. You have become what you hate most.
by goodfight 7y ago
Censorship is a step in the direction of fascism. You have become what you hate most.
- omegaworks 7y agoDeplatforming is not censorship. Twisting definitions to suit your impotence in the face of actual rising authoritarianism does not help anyone.
- MRD85 7y agoCensorship is the suppression of speech, public communication, or other information, on the basis that such material is considered objectionable, harmful, sensitive, or "inconvenient".[2][3][4] Censorship can be conducted by a government[5], private institutions, and corporations. That's the first definition I found when I googled the word. Reddit, a private institution, considered the content harmful. Seems to fit the definition.
- root_axis 7y agoBased on that definition it cannot be assumed that censorship is always wrong. For example, removing a post that was doxxing an individual would be considered censorship but could also be the moral thing to do. I would also point out that the_donald has a very aggressive moderation policy where most comments critical of the president are removed, so I don't think there is much room for them to complain about censorship.
- goodfight 7y agoDeplatforming, shadow banning, deboosting, demonetization are all modern forms of censorship. It might not be exactly like the Chinese or other types of censorships we have seen in the past but it is a valid form of censorship. Definitions aren't everything, context matters. If you want to see a rising power filled with authoritarianism, look towards Google.
- hnBansByDefault 7y agoBut HN would never do such a thing, right?
- dang 7y agoWhen an account has more than a little history here, we tell people that we've banned them, and why: https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comment&storyText=false&prefix=false&page=0&query=by:dang%20banned https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme... https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comment&storyText=false&prefix&page=0&query=by:sctb%20banned https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme... Brand new accounts posting trollish or flamebaity stuff get treated differently. Software filters some of those, and we shadowban some of them, especially if there's evidence that this is someone we've banned many times before. The converse is also true: if software has filtered out a new account that's not posting trollishly or flamebaitily, we restore their posts and mark the account legit so it won't happen again. I think this is a reasonable balance between transparency and defending the site against abuse. If we tried to give every banned account the same high-effort attention that we give established users, we'd do nothing else all day and still not get through them all. That would just be a new vector for people to DoS the moderators. A small number of abusive users can create a large number of disruptions. Edit: there is also a significant amount of spam, and if we told spammers we were banning them, they would spam us with emails demanding attention, asking why, and telling us how high-quality their articles really are. Actually they do this a lot already, and it's a pain.
- stefantalpalaru 7y ago> A small number of abusive users can create a large number of disruptions. Yes, just like a small number of censors can cut off a suicidal Ian Murdock's last communication channels so he runs out of excuses for postponing his suicide, only to assure themselves the next day that they did nothing wrong.
- goodfight 7y agoI'm not positive on that statement. But I have seen political bias and ranking bias quite often on HN.
- ssalazar 7y agoHow is a business censoring their own networks related to fascism? Is the downvote button fascist? This is the classic "paradox of tolerance."
- leereeves 7y agoWhy is it more acceptable when a business does it than when a government does it?
- locopati 7y agoBecause if you live in a country there's only one government. Business provide a service and you can find another service that meets your needs.
- ssalazar 7y agoThe same reason if I go to a stranger's house and start debating with them about my own political opinions they are free to kick me out. Free enterprise and private property are generally considered fundaments of modern civil society. Im all ears if you have an argument to the contrary.
- leereeves 7y agoWe're not talking about people's houses. In the context of business, California has already made that argument for me, making it illegal to discriminate based on political views.
- ssalazar 7y ago> We're not talking about people's houses. I'm talking about private property and the right to do with it as one pleases so long as it doesn't infringe on the rights of others. When a group of people create a business this doesn't magically go away. > In the context of business, California has already made that argument for me, making it illegal to discriminate based on political views. Certain protected classes are legally protected from discrimination, yes. To my knowledge "advocating violence" is not a political view; this is what the r/The_Donald is being quarantined for.
- asdfgasd 7y agoNot necessarily. The Soviet government was engaged in significant censorship and was not fascist. Same with the CCP currently. Fascism implies censorship, but censorship does not imply fascism.
- AnimalMuppet 7y agoYou are correct that fascists aren't the only ones who censor. But that doesn't make it something that should be a normal part of a free, democratic society. (Your Soviet and CCP examples highlight that, which may have been your point.)
- goodfight 7y agoI said a step in the direction to fascism. I never asserted that censorship itself requires fascism. They usually come hand in hand though.
- egypturnash 7y agoDeplatforming is to toxic mindsets as an immune system is to disease.
- goodfight 7y agoThat's a good parallel actually. There are immune system diseases where the system kills the good cells too because it can't discriminate correctly. You're right!
- BubRoss 7y agoYou do realize that /r/the_donald immediately bans anyone that isn't 100% on board with the agressive propoganda right?
- AngryData 7y agoI disagree completely. This is the same thing as the paradox of tolerance. If you want a tolerant society, you have to be intolerant against intolerance. If you want a non-fascist society you need to be fascist against fascism. Otherwise the intolerant/fascist side gains a platform and turns the community intolerant or fascist overall.
- goodfight 7y ago"If you want a non-fascist society you need to be fascist against fascism." This statement says it all, the ends justify the means. Sounds like every terrible dictator or authoritarian society that has existed on the Earth so far.
- AngryData 7y agoRead about "the paradox of tolerance" and maybe you will understand what im talking about a bit better. What parts of fascism are acceptable to society? The intolerance of other groups? The claimed superiority over others? The militarization of civilians and their forced involvement into the military and war? The forced labor of captured civilians to feed the war machine? They literally believe democracy is obsolete and that the government should be run under a single party via totalitarian rule. That is there literal stated goal. They cheer on political violence and imperialism as a goal to 'rejuvenating' their state. They literally want to dismantle democracy and put us under dictatorial rule.
- archagon 7y agoYou could also say that “not listening to speech you despise is a step in the direction of fascism,” and it’s an equally empty statement. I mean, I guess it’s technically true. But it also means that literally everybody is a virulent and unrepentant fascist in their social lives.
- goodfight 7y agoRemaining unbiased in the secular/science domain is critical to the future of humanity. If you are going to be biased, please at least do your research. Don't just browse twitter and think you are informed.