9 ms·

Dealing with stress well is a valuable skill. Many of those that do not manage emotions well become toxic. I personally would let a few great engineers who cann

by rrhyne 7y ago

Dealing with stress well is a valuable skill. Many of those that do not manage emotions well become toxic. I personally would let a few great engineers who cannot find balance through tough deadlines, un-paved roadmaps, and tricky social situations find jobs elsewhere than hire people who cannot maintain their emotions.

learc83 7y ago
The kind of stress you deal with in technical interviews is nothing at all like the kind of stress you face in a functional workplace. If your normal work environment is anything like a whiteboard interview, I want nothing to do with your company.
- granshaw 7y ago
  Yes. That kind of stress would be like trying to fix an issue causing the company to hemorrhage money within 30 mins without being able to google anything and with others looking over your shoulder and wanting you to explain your thoughts. Oh and you have to get it correct on a whiteboard first
  - milemi 7y ago
    These situations do happen in real life, minus the whiteboard.
    - learc83 7y ago
      You can't google anything, and people expect you to explain your thought process while solving an emergency issue with a 30 minute deadline? Again I don't want to work at this company.
      - milemi 7y ago
        Sometimes there's no time to google, and you want to be talking to someone while you're doing it, as a sanity check. https://dealbook.nytimes.com/2012/08/02/knight-capital-says-trading-mishap-cost-it-440-million/ https://dealbook.nytimes.com/2012/08/02/knight-capital-says-... $10M/minute is an extreme case, but these things happen on a smaller scale all the time. I'm not saying this is the justification for coding interviews, just saying that it happens, and the ability to code something up quickly that also works correctly without having time to test it sometimes saves the day. I do think coding interviews that people are complaining about are good, and getting in shape to do well in them is good for you. You can tell it's good for you just by the amount of complaining people are doing :)
        learc83 7y ago
        >Sometimes there's no time to google What do you mean no time to Google? You're never going to be able to remember everything. Sure the ideal situation is that you're fixing a bug where you happen to know the exact syntax for every piece of every library you need. But in the very likely situation where you don't, of course you have time to google. >and the ability to code something up quickly that also works correctly without having time to test it sometimes saves the day. Often becuase the company has optimized the hiring process for people who are good at doing this vs. people who are good at designing maintainable, durable systems. If 30 minute, million dollar fixes is a frequent enough occurrence to make aptitude at them the primary or even a major factor in your hiring decision, you have done something horribly wrong. >I do think coding interviews that people are complaining about are good, and getting in shape to do well in them is good for you. Having hired people using many different techniques, I think that these types of interviews are only a bit better than random chance. They are a separate skill from 99% of daily programming work, and they are gameable. I also think they are nothing more than a fad caused by people cargo culting Google. Not a single other technical discipline widley uses this kind of stage performance based interview process. Not one. >and you want to be talking to someone while you're doing it, as a sanity check. That makes zero sense. Sure sometimes it helps to talk through a problem if you're working with someone who is also trying to solve the problem with you, and you might want to explain a fix after you solve the problem but before you push as a sanity check. But if it's a hard problem you can kick rocks if you expect me to explain what I'm thinking about while I'm concentrating on solving it--while you're watching over my shoulder, and are not actively engaged in helping me solve the problem. You're just slowing me down.
        milemi 7y ago
        None of the problems at interviews are really hard.
        learc83 7y ago
        Many problems have solutions that were worthy of publication and took a lot longer than 30 minutes for very smart people to solve. So if you don't already know the answer or the answer to a very similar problem then yes objectively they are hard problems.
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
      - verletx64 7y ago
        Worth saying, sometimes there’s nothing to google, or googling wouldn’t yield a significant answer - perhaps the issue lies in some module of fairly home grown code.
        learc83 7y ago
        Sure that happens, but you probably have access to internal documentation, a compiler, a REPL--something. The issue with not being able to Google isn't Google specifically, it's the lack of all the tools you use to solve real problems.
        milemi 7y ago
        Google, or any other reference, is the hard drive, and the skill you have in your noggin is the cache. You wouldn't want to buy a machine that's all hard drive and no cache.
        learc83 7y ago
        That analogy isn't a refutation of anything.
- reallydontask 7y ago
  I think the issue is that some people either don't remember the stress of an interview or just don't get that stressed so they can't empathise with people that do get horrendously stressed in an interview. I'm with you on this one, if working at a company induces interview levels of a stress daily, even regularly, then please don't hire me.
  - rrhyne 7y ago
    You may have had some bad whiteboard sessions. Ours are are a working session WITH the candidate not against the candidate.
    - learc83 7y ago
      I do this as well. But it's not a few bad whiteboard sessions. The vast majority of whiteboard interviews are strictly adversarial.
    - reallydontask 7y ago
      I've never had a whiteboard session, these type of interviews are not common in the non-start-up world in the UK. I just get really, really stressed in an interview. To make matters worse, it seems that I project this aura of calm and self assurance, or so I've been told by two of my interviewers after they hired me, so that I don't even get a concession for obvious nervousness.
gnusty_gnurc 7y ago
I agree that handling stress and managing emotions is a super valuable skill. But I'll hard-pass any interviews that try to stress-test my ability to maintain my emotions.
- cmonnow 7y ago
  you just mashed together the two phrases in an attempt to come up with a new meaning, but it falls short. handling stress = managing emotions = maintaining emotions in a stress-test
  - gnusty_gnurc 7y ago
    Yea that post didn't come out well. Either way it's not hard to see that I was trying to convey that any company that's going to put me through the wringer to see when I break down isn't worth my time or frustration. Be upfront about what you want or stop wasting my time and energy. It's like the scene at the end of Charlie and Chocolate Factory - or this video[1]. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHy06FMsezI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHy06FMsezI

by rrhyne 7y ago

learc83 7y ago

The kind of stress you deal with in technical interviews is nothing at all like the kind of stress you face in a functional workplace. If your normal work environment is anything like a whiteboard interview, I want nothing to do with your company.

granshaw 7y ago
Yes. That kind of stress would be like trying to fix an issue causing the company to hemorrhage money within 30 mins without being able to google anything and with others looking over your shoulder and wanting you to explain your thoughts. Oh and you have to get it correct on a whiteboard first
- milemi 7y ago
  These situations do happen in real life, minus the whiteboard.
  - learc83 7y ago
    You can't google anything, and people expect you to explain your thought process while solving an emergency issue with a 30 minute deadline? Again I don't want to work at this company.
    - milemi 7y ago
      Sometimes there's no time to google, and you want to be talking to someone while you're doing it, as a sanity check. https://dealbook.nytimes.com/2012/08/02/knight-capital-says-trading-mishap-cost-it-440-million/ https://dealbook.nytimes.com/2012/08/02/knight-capital-says-... $10M/minute is an extreme case, but these things happen on a smaller scale all the time. I'm not saying this is the justification for coding interviews, just saying that it happens, and the ability to code something up quickly that also works correctly without having time to test it sometimes saves the day. I do think coding interviews that people are complaining about are good, and getting in shape to do well in them is good for you. You can tell it's good for you just by the amount of complaining people are doing :)
      - learc83 7y ago
        >Sometimes there's no time to google What do you mean no time to Google? You're never going to be able to remember everything. Sure the ideal situation is that you're fixing a bug where you happen to know the exact syntax for every piece of every library you need. But in the very likely situation where you don't, of course you have time to google. >and the ability to code something up quickly that also works correctly without having time to test it sometimes saves the day. Often becuase the company has optimized the hiring process for people who are good at doing this vs. people who are good at designing maintainable, durable systems. If 30 minute, million dollar fixes is a frequent enough occurrence to make aptitude at them the primary or even a major factor in your hiring decision, you have done something horribly wrong. >I do think coding interviews that people are complaining about are good, and getting in shape to do well in them is good for you. Having hired people using many different techniques, I think that these types of interviews are only a bit better than random chance. They are a separate skill from 99% of daily programming work, and they are gameable. I also think they are nothing more than a fad caused by people cargo culting Google. Not a single other technical discipline widley uses this kind of stage performance based interview process. Not one. >and you want to be talking to someone while you're doing it, as a sanity check. That makes zero sense. Sure sometimes it helps to talk through a problem if you're working with someone who is also trying to solve the problem with you, and you might want to explain a fix after you solve the problem but before you push as a sanity check. But if it's a hard problem you can kick rocks if you expect me to explain what I'm thinking about while I'm concentrating on solving it--while you're watching over my shoulder, and are not actively engaged in helping me solve the problem. You're just slowing me down.
        milemi 7y ago
        None of the problems at interviews are really hard.
        learc83 7y ago
        Many problems have solutions that were worthy of publication and took a lot longer than 30 minutes for very smart people to solve. So if you don't already know the answer or the answer to a very similar problem then yes objectively they are hard problems.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - verletx64 7y ago
      Worth saying, sometimes there’s nothing to google, or googling wouldn’t yield a significant answer - perhaps the issue lies in some module of fairly home grown code.
      - learc83 7y ago
        Sure that happens, but you probably have access to internal documentation, a compiler, a REPL--something. The issue with not being able to Google isn't Google specifically, it's the lack of all the tools you use to solve real problems.
        milemi 7y ago
        Google, or any other reference, is the hard drive, and the skill you have in your noggin is the cache. You wouldn't want to buy a machine that's all hard drive and no cache.
        learc83 7y ago
        That analogy isn't a refutation of anything.
reallydontask 7y ago
I think the issue is that some people either don't remember the stress of an interview or just don't get that stressed so they can't empathise with people that do get horrendously stressed in an interview. I'm with you on this one, if working at a company induces interview levels of a stress daily, even regularly, then please don't hire me.
- rrhyne 7y ago
  You may have had some bad whiteboard sessions. Ours are are a working session WITH the candidate not against the candidate.
  - learc83 7y ago
    I do this as well. But it's not a few bad whiteboard sessions. The vast majority of whiteboard interviews are strictly adversarial.
  - reallydontask 7y ago
    I've never had a whiteboard session, these type of interviews are not common in the non-start-up world in the UK. I just get really, really stressed in an interview. To make matters worse, it seems that I project this aura of calm and self assurance, or so I've been told by two of my interviewers after they hired me, so that I don't even get a concession for obvious nervousness.

gnusty_gnurc 7y ago

I agree that handling stress and managing emotions is a super valuable skill. But I'll hard-pass any interviews that try to stress-test my ability to maintain my emotions.

cmonnow 7y ago
you just mashed together the two phrases in an attempt to come up with a new meaning, but it falls short. handling stress = managing emotions = maintaining emotions in a stress-test
- gnusty_gnurc 7y ago
  Yea that post didn't come out well. Either way it's not hard to see that I was trying to convey that any company that's going to put me through the wringer to see when I break down isn't worth my time or frustration. Be upfront about what you want or stop wasting my time and energy. It's like the scene at the end of Charlie and Chocolate Factory - or this video[1]. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHy06FMsezI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHy06FMsezI