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I didn't call him Alt-Right, I just pointed out there have been at least three mass shootings in the past two years by Ben Shapiro fans. Edit: In many countrie

I didn't call him Alt-Right, I just pointed out there have been at least three mass shootings in the past two years by Ben Shapiro fans. Edit: In many countries, hate speech does in fact have a definition. Just because it's not in the US legal code doesn't mean it's undefined - that's why your right wing media personalities can have trouble coming into Canada.

stcredzero 7y ago
Indeed you did. You're openly one of those people who likes to point out that members of __insert group here__ engage in mass killing. Thanks.
- eastWestMath 7y ago
  You realize that hate crimes have gone up the past few years? The far right are committing crimes, and Ben Shapiro's rhetoric (along with other far right commentators) is not helping. You're tying to equivocate throwing a milkshake at a politician with actual violence. >https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2019/apr/03/hate-crimes-are-increasingly-reported-us/ https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2019/apr/03...
  - DuskStar 7y ago
    > You realize that hate crimes have gone up the past few years? Um. You do realize that politifact article ends with "reported incidents are going up, total incidents are going down", right? Here: > Analyses of the National Crime Victimization Survey indicated that the majority of crime victimizations were not reported to the police from 2009 to 2014. Reported victimizations have picked up, and unreported incidents have went down since 2015, after a significant drop in both categories in 2014. And their "Share The Facts" summary: "Only for reported crimes" Finally, throwing milkshakes, just like throwing rotten fruit, is violence - mild violence, but still a very different thing than speech.
    - deogeo 7y ago
      > Finally, throwing milkshakes, just like throwing rotten fruit, is violence - mild violence, but still a very different thing than speech. It's not limited to milkshakes. Lets apply some symmetry, say that the hateful rhetoric from the left has fanned Islamic attacks [1], or is what caused two black teens pouring gasoline on a white 13-year old, saying "This is what you deserve. You get what you deserve, white boy." as they set him on fire [2]. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20184712 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20184712 [2] https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/teenagers-poured-gasoline-boy-walking-home-school-set-fire-cops-article-1.1033062 https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/teenagers-poured-g...
      - icebraining 7y ago
        To the police, the kid only claimed they said "this is what you get". The white boy part seems to have come up later.
        deogeo 7y ago
        Does "seems to have come up" mean he amended his statement after recovering from the fire damage to his lungs? I wasn't able to find any information on this.
  - stcredzero 7y ago
    You realize that hate crimes have gone up the past few years? The far right are committing crimes There are over 600 documented incidents of assault and vandalism committed on behalf of the Left, most often associated with Antifa, in the past few years. If you just look at the past two years and exclude Christchurch, the Far Left death toll also outstrips that of the Far Right. You're tying to equivocate throwing a milkshake at a politician with actual violence. In many jurisdictions, that is assault.
    - yourbandsucks 7y ago
      You have a link to that far left death toll? Because I'm not aware of.. basically any, in America. Who are you including? Socialist guerrillas in Latin America? Islamists?
      - stcredzero 7y ago
        You have a link to that far left death toll? Because I'm not aware of.. basically any, in America. I went searching and looked into where this idea of mine came from. My statement is a little out of date, stemming from 2017 so I'll retract it partially. If you look at this Washington Post article, and scroll down to the bar chart, for 2016 amd 2017 you'll see 11 killings by the right wing extremists and 16 killings by the left wing extremists. https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/in-the-united-states-right-wing-violence-is-on-the-rise/2018/11/25/61f7f24a-deb4-11e8-85df-7a6b4d25cfbb_story.html?utm_term=.9ecd036d7ca5 https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/in-the-united-states... However, you'll note that the number isn't zero. It's just that the mainstream media is very left biased, and engages in the kind of "not technically censorship" suppression of information typical of the West, as called out by Noam Chomsky in Manufacturing Consent. Note how effective that style of soft suppression was in preventing your awareness of those killings.
        yourbandsucks 7y ago
        I'm still not aware of the killings, the article had no details. Maybe they included those couple cops killed in NYC a few years back? Maybe they didn't? All we have is a bar chart. And it's not like anger at police is a liberal-exclusive position. It did remind me of the congressional baseball game shooter, who as far as I remember, didn't kill anyone (though not for lack of trying). That was stacked against several more successful mass murder attempts from right wingers.
DuskStar 7y ago
I'm pretty sure there have been mass shootings committed by MLK fans, too. What's your point?
Veelox 7y ago
>at least three mass shootings in the past two years by Ben Shapiro fans. Citation needed
mrebus 7y ago
>I just pointed out there have been at least three mass shootings in the past two years by Ben Shapiro fans. you know this is a joke amongst the actual extreme-right. the Christchurch guy even said Candace Owens radicalized him. they say it because they don't like ben shapiro and they want to tarnish his name it seams to be working.
- 0815test 7y ago
  The "Christchurch guy" is a murderous, sadistic psychopath. He will say anything that has people giving him attention. (Note that this also implies that politics plays basically no causal role in what he did - and yet, this basic fact about the Christchurch event makes me extremely nervous about alt-right or hate content nonetheless. In fact, it makes me more nervous, not less! Because if it turns out that criminal psychopaths can easily exploit this sort of content as an excuse or pretext for their murderous acts, that's definitely something we want to know. Do note that, plausibly, "rational debate" and the like - the usual arguments for maximum free speech! - do not apply to psychopaths in general; these individuals entirely lack affective empathy or a moral sense, and even their theory-of-mind abilities (without which no "debate" can plausibly exist!) might be severely degraded, at least when it comes to 'deep' reasoning about others' affects/emotions, goals, perspectives etc.)
  - stcredzero 7y ago
    Note that this also implies that politics plays basically no causal role in what he did Some politics is sociopathic. Some is perhaps better characterized as nihilist. Accelerationism, which is what is advocated by the Christchurch shooter, is both sociopathic and nihilistic. Do note that, plausibly, "rational debate" and the like - the usual arguments for maximum free speech! - do not apply to psychopaths in general; these individuals entirely lack affective empathy or a moral sense, and even their theory-of-mind abilities If you go and look at the documented video of both Far Left and Far Right extremists committing acts of violence, intimidation, and vandalism, you will see precisely what you have described above. "These individuals entirely lack affective empathy or a moral sense." This is actually why you want to accord them Free Speech. If civic discourse is operating correctly, such people inevitably reveal themselves for what they really are. The problem with 2019 and recent years, is that civic discourse and the news media are broken, and much of the complete picture may be hidden from view from within a particular information bubble.

stcredzero 7y ago

Indeed you did. You're openly one of those people who likes to point out that members of __insert group here__ engage in mass killing. Thanks.

eastWestMath 7y ago
You realize that hate crimes have gone up the past few years? The far right are committing crimes, and Ben Shapiro's rhetoric (along with other far right commentators) is not helping. You're tying to equivocate throwing a milkshake at a politician with actual violence. >https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2019/apr/03/hate-crimes-are-increasingly-reported-us/ https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2019/apr/03...
- DuskStar 7y ago
  > You realize that hate crimes have gone up the past few years? Um. You do realize that politifact article ends with "reported incidents are going up, total incidents are going down", right? Here: > Analyses of the National Crime Victimization Survey indicated that the majority of crime victimizations were not reported to the police from 2009 to 2014. Reported victimizations have picked up, and unreported incidents have went down since 2015, after a significant drop in both categories in 2014. And their "Share The Facts" summary: "Only for reported crimes" Finally, throwing milkshakes, just like throwing rotten fruit, is violence - mild violence, but still a very different thing than speech.
  - deogeo 7y ago
    > Finally, throwing milkshakes, just like throwing rotten fruit, is violence - mild violence, but still a very different thing than speech. It's not limited to milkshakes. Lets apply some symmetry, say that the hateful rhetoric from the left has fanned Islamic attacks [1], or is what caused two black teens pouring gasoline on a white 13-year old, saying "This is what you deserve. You get what you deserve, white boy." as they set him on fire [2]. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20184712 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20184712 [2] https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/teenagers-poured-gasoline-boy-walking-home-school-set-fire-cops-article-1.1033062 https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/teenagers-poured-g...
    - icebraining 7y ago
      To the police, the kid only claimed they said "this is what you get". The white boy part seems to have come up later.
      - deogeo 7y ago
        Does "seems to have come up" mean he amended his statement after recovering from the fire damage to his lungs? I wasn't able to find any information on this.
- stcredzero 7y ago
  You realize that hate crimes have gone up the past few years? The far right are committing crimes There are over 600 documented incidents of assault and vandalism committed on behalf of the Left, most often associated with Antifa, in the past few years. If you just look at the past two years and exclude Christchurch, the Far Left death toll also outstrips that of the Far Right. You're tying to equivocate throwing a milkshake at a politician with actual violence. In many jurisdictions, that is assault.
  - yourbandsucks 7y ago
    You have a link to that far left death toll? Because I'm not aware of.. basically any, in America. Who are you including? Socialist guerrillas in Latin America? Islamists?
    - stcredzero 7y ago
      You have a link to that far left death toll? Because I'm not aware of.. basically any, in America. I went searching and looked into where this idea of mine came from. My statement is a little out of date, stemming from 2017 so I'll retract it partially. If you look at this Washington Post article, and scroll down to the bar chart, for 2016 amd 2017 you'll see 11 killings by the right wing extremists and 16 killings by the left wing extremists. https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/in-the-united-states-right-wing-violence-is-on-the-rise/2018/11/25/61f7f24a-deb4-11e8-85df-7a6b4d25cfbb_story.html?utm_term=.9ecd036d7ca5 https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/in-the-united-states... However, you'll note that the number isn't zero. It's just that the mainstream media is very left biased, and engages in the kind of "not technically censorship" suppression of information typical of the West, as called out by Noam Chomsky in Manufacturing Consent. Note how effective that style of soft suppression was in preventing your awareness of those killings.
      - yourbandsucks 7y ago
        I'm still not aware of the killings, the article had no details. Maybe they included those couple cops killed in NYC a few years back? Maybe they didn't? All we have is a bar chart. And it's not like anger at police is a liberal-exclusive position. It did remind me of the congressional baseball game shooter, who as far as I remember, didn't kill anyone (though not for lack of trying). That was stacked against several more successful mass murder attempts from right wingers.

DuskStar 7y ago

I'm pretty sure there have been mass shootings committed by MLK fans, too. What's your point?

Veelox 7y ago

>at least three mass shootings in the past two years by Ben Shapiro fans. Citation needed

mrebus 7y ago

>I just pointed out there have been at least three mass shootings in the past two years by Ben Shapiro fans. you know this is a joke amongst the actual extreme-right. the Christchurch guy even said Candace Owens radicalized him. they say it because they don't like ben shapiro and they want to tarnish his name it seams to be working.

0815test 7y ago
The "Christchurch guy" is a murderous, sadistic psychopath. He will say anything that has people giving him attention. (Note that this also implies that politics plays basically no causal role in what he did - and yet, this basic fact about the Christchurch event makes me extremely nervous about alt-right or hate content nonetheless. In fact, it makes me more nervous, not less! Because if it turns out that criminal psychopaths can easily exploit this sort of content as an excuse or pretext for their murderous acts, that's definitely something we want to know. Do note that, plausibly, "rational debate" and the like - the usual arguments for maximum free speech! - do not apply to psychopaths in general; these individuals entirely lack affective empathy or a moral sense, and even their theory-of-mind abilities (without which no "debate" can plausibly exist!) might be severely degraded, at least when it comes to 'deep' reasoning about others' affects/emotions, goals, perspectives etc.)
- stcredzero 7y ago
  Note that this also implies that politics plays basically no causal role in what he did Some politics is sociopathic. Some is perhaps better characterized as nihilist. Accelerationism, which is what is advocated by the Christchurch shooter, is both sociopathic and nihilistic. Do note that, plausibly, "rational debate" and the like - the usual arguments for maximum free speech! - do not apply to psychopaths in general; these individuals entirely lack affective empathy or a moral sense, and even their theory-of-mind abilities If you go and look at the documented video of both Far Left and Far Right extremists committing acts of violence, intimidation, and vandalism, you will see precisely what you have described above. "These individuals entirely lack affective empathy or a moral sense." This is actually why you want to accord them Free Speech. If civic discourse is operating correctly, such people inevitably reveal themselves for what they really are. The problem with 2019 and recent years, is that civic discourse and the news media are broken, and much of the complete picture may be hidden from view from within a particular information bubble.