8 ms·

You're painting Lyft to be the bad guys because they're suing. It seems like SFMTA is trying to weasel out of a contract. Lyft isn't trying to prevent people fr

You're painting Lyft to be the bad guys because they're suing. It seems like SFMTA is trying to weasel out of a contract. Lyft isn't trying to prevent people from continuing to commute by bikeshare; they're trying to secure their ROI on their Motivate acquisition through the exclusivity contract with SF. Have you read the contract terms in the article you're linking to? SFMTA is saying the contract was for 'docked bikes only' while Lyft is saying it was for a Bike Sharing Program, which could include docked or dockless bikes. Lyft does a good job describing what 'Bike sharing' is in that document so it will be up to the courts to decide if they're right. - “Bike sharing” is a public biking system concept that allows customers to rent a bike on a short-term basis from one section of a city and leave it in another section of the city that same day. - The Term Sheet provided, among other terms, that Motivate was to be the exclusive operator of any bike share system in the Participating Cities for at least ten (10) years. The Term Sheet provided (emphasis added): “During the Term of this Agreement, Motivate shall have the exclusive right to operate a bike sharing program that utilizes public property and public right of way anywhere within San Francisco, Berkeley, Oakland, San Jose and Emeryville.”

Larrikin 7y ago
What if I don't care whether Lyft gets their ROI and just want the best bike share possible?
- praneshp 7y ago
  That's the same as "What if I don't care about killing other people and just want the most space for myself". A contract is a contract.
  - jessaustin 7y ago
    Unconscionable contracts, especially when one of the parties is a taxing jurisdiction, have no ethical force. I'm not certain that this was an unconscionable contract, but you have to at least make the argument. What consideration did the people of this municipality receive in exchange for this encumbrance placed on their liberty?
    - maxerickson 7y ago
      I read the contract as being about the use of publicly owned space for the docks. That seems more like a municipal corporation making a stupid agreement than it does an encumbrance on anyone's liberty. Rent private space for your bike racks...
      - closeparen 7y ago
        Which might make sense in the city’s view that it is a deal about docks, not about all bikeshare.
  - damnyou 7y ago
    No, a contract is not simply a contract. Contracts are only enforced when a court agrees they are enforceable. A court can declare a contract unenforceable for a variety of reasons, such as if it was ill-formed, one side was overwhelmingly more powerful, or the contract is against public policy (such as non-compete agreements in California). https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/unenforceable-contracts-tips-33079.html https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/unenforceable-contra...
    - praneshp 7y ago
      And in this case, Lyft is simply trying to ascertain that the courts will uphold this contract. No need to hate on them simply for taking the city to court.
- paxys 7y ago
  Blame your elected officials for signing the contract.
  - toomuchequate 7y ago
    Better, blame the people who voted them in. In modern times regulations are monopolistic power grabs by corporations, not the 'protection' they are intended to be. It has been clear this happens, but people continue to elect politicians that regulate anyway. Hopefully this is a traumatic event and teaches this community a good lesson. Our locals cities can take note, and their voters learn an important lesson that could otherwise harm national level elections.
- scottlamb 7y ago
  You probably should be upset with the city for granting the monopoly in the first place. Now that they have, I'm not sure. Maybe there's a legal and ethical way to break the contract, but arguing dockless bikes aren't bike sharing probably isn't it.
  - vadym909 7y ago
    you are just making the taxi medallion owner's point against Lyft and Uber
    - scottlamb 7y ago
      Yeah, the hypocrisy of this particular company getting (through acquisition) an exclusive contract and aggressively defending it didn't escape me, and I'd be happy to hear a good way to break it.
- digitxpc 7y ago
  Throw lots and lots of money funding at a bikeshare system so that the system doesn't need to care about profit. Hire competent, driven people for the system so they feel motivated to make the system better even without any financial incentives. (Perhaps a little pixie dust would help as well.)
- untog 7y ago
  An exclusivity agreement might result in the best bike share possible. I don't want to pick up one company's bike and struggle to find a dock for that same company when it comes time for dropoff. Either one company gets exclusivity, or you end up with a huge amount of public space given over to redundant infrastructure.
  - closeparen 7y ago
    That is no reason to prohibit dockless bikeshares.
  - gbear605 7y ago
    Or you mandate a docking system that works for all the bike companies. Commoditize the docks using public action and then the free market can actually be free to solve the rest.
    - ViViDboarder 7y ago
      There ought to be a solution somewhere in this line. This alone won’t solve it as a company could flood the docks and block out competition that way. Having multiple companies running taxis or P2P ride apps doesn’t matter so much as users as you can still hail a cab the same way and many P2P drivers use both Lyft and Uber, creating a good user experience. However, that’s not true for these types of bike/scooter shares. The density of bikes/scooters is not so high that I’ll be able to pick just one app and have no problem finding transportation. And, if it was, we’d be tripping over them left and right. Even interoperability between apps would be enough to solve this.
AndrewWarner 7y ago
It's been tough to find a bike from them. I've been a happy customer for years (first in DC and now SF), but ever since they removed their electric bikes, their docks have been empty so often that I can't count on using them any more.
jMyles 7y ago
I'm not sure I agree that the city has the moral authority to grant a monopoly on such a concept. I like Lyft just fine and I especially applaud their efforts to expand into ebike-to-transit. But I also have a little trouble feeling sorry for a company that feels it has suffered a loss because its out-and-out regulatory capture scheme didn't pan out as successfully as it hoped.
- Benjammer 7y ago
  Is it really fair to describe a 10 yr government contract as "out-and-out regulatory capture"?
  - closeparen 7y ago
    “Government contract” makes it sound like the government is buying something. This the government granting an exclusive license to sell something to the public.
- julien_c 7y ago
  Very nicely said.
- untog 7y ago
  You don't really have to feel sorry for them, you just have to recognise that they are entitled to what their contract says they are. If you're against an exclusivity agreement (which actually makes a lot of sense when establishing a transportation network) then your complaint should be with the government, not Lyft.
  - closeparen 7y ago
    A widespread belief that transportation should not be competitive might explain why it functions so poorly. How is this different from banning all but one automaker?
    - baby 7y ago

Larrikin 7y ago

What if I don't care whether Lyft gets their ROI and just want the best bike share possible?

praneshp 7y ago
That's the same as "What if I don't care about killing other people and just want the most space for myself". A contract is a contract.
- jessaustin 7y ago
  Unconscionable contracts, especially when one of the parties is a taxing jurisdiction, have no ethical force. I'm not certain that this was an unconscionable contract, but you have to at least make the argument. What consideration did the people of this municipality receive in exchange for this encumbrance placed on their liberty?
  - maxerickson 7y ago
    I read the contract as being about the use of publicly owned space for the docks. That seems more like a municipal corporation making a stupid agreement than it does an encumbrance on anyone's liberty. Rent private space for your bike racks...
    - closeparen 7y ago
      Which might make sense in the city’s view that it is a deal about docks, not about all bikeshare.
- damnyou 7y ago
  No, a contract is not simply a contract. Contracts are only enforced when a court agrees they are enforceable. A court can declare a contract unenforceable for a variety of reasons, such as if it was ill-formed, one side was overwhelmingly more powerful, or the contract is against public policy (such as non-compete agreements in California). https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/unenforceable-contracts-tips-33079.html https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/unenforceable-contra...
  - praneshp 7y ago
    And in this case, Lyft is simply trying to ascertain that the courts will uphold this contract. No need to hate on them simply for taking the city to court.
paxys 7y ago
Blame your elected officials for signing the contract.
- toomuchequate 7y ago
  Better, blame the people who voted them in. In modern times regulations are monopolistic power grabs by corporations, not the 'protection' they are intended to be. It has been clear this happens, but people continue to elect politicians that regulate anyway. Hopefully this is a traumatic event and teaches this community a good lesson. Our locals cities can take note, and their voters learn an important lesson that could otherwise harm national level elections.
scottlamb 7y ago
You probably should be upset with the city for granting the monopoly in the first place. Now that they have, I'm not sure. Maybe there's a legal and ethical way to break the contract, but arguing dockless bikes aren't bike sharing probably isn't it.
- vadym909 7y ago
  you are just making the taxi medallion owner's point against Lyft and Uber
  - scottlamb 7y ago
    Yeah, the hypocrisy of this particular company getting (through acquisition) an exclusive contract and aggressively defending it didn't escape me, and I'd be happy to hear a good way to break it.
digitxpc 7y ago
Throw lots and lots of money funding at a bikeshare system so that the system doesn't need to care about profit. Hire competent, driven people for the system so they feel motivated to make the system better even without any financial incentives. (Perhaps a little pixie dust would help as well.)
untog 7y ago
An exclusivity agreement might result in the best bike share possible. I don't want to pick up one company's bike and struggle to find a dock for that same company when it comes time for dropoff. Either one company gets exclusivity, or you end up with a huge amount of public space given over to redundant infrastructure.
- closeparen 7y ago
  That is no reason to prohibit dockless bikeshares.
- gbear605 7y ago
  Or you mandate a docking system that works for all the bike companies. Commoditize the docks using public action and then the free market can actually be free to solve the rest.
  - ViViDboarder 7y ago
    There ought to be a solution somewhere in this line. This alone won’t solve it as a company could flood the docks and block out competition that way. Having multiple companies running taxis or P2P ride apps doesn’t matter so much as users as you can still hail a cab the same way and many P2P drivers use both Lyft and Uber, creating a good user experience. However, that’s not true for these types of bike/scooter shares. The density of bikes/scooters is not so high that I’ll be able to pick just one app and have no problem finding transportation. And, if it was, we’d be tripping over them left and right. Even interoperability between apps would be enough to solve this.

AndrewWarner 7y ago

It's been tough to find a bike from them. I've been a happy customer for years (first in DC and now SF), but ever since they removed their electric bikes, their docks have been empty so often that I can't count on using them any more.

jMyles 7y ago

I'm not sure I agree that the city has the moral authority to grant a monopoly on such a concept. I like Lyft just fine and I especially applaud their efforts to expand into ebike-to-transit. But I also have a little trouble feeling sorry for a company that feels it has suffered a loss because its out-and-out regulatory capture scheme didn't pan out as successfully as it hoped.

Benjammer 7y ago
Is it really fair to describe a 10 yr government contract as "out-and-out regulatory capture"?
- closeparen 7y ago
  “Government contract” makes it sound like the government is buying something. This the government granting an exclusive license to sell something to the public.
julien_c 7y ago
Very nicely said.
untog 7y ago
You don't really have to feel sorry for them, you just have to recognise that they are entitled to what their contract says they are. If you're against an exclusivity agreement (which actually makes a lot of sense when establishing a transportation network) then your complaint should be with the government, not Lyft.
- closeparen 7y ago
  A widespread belief that transportation should not be competitive might explain why it functions so poorly. How is this different from banning all but one automaker?
  - baby 7y ago