7 ms·

It seems a bit extreme to offer apps one of two extremes: either my sub-metre location or no location at all. It seems the reasonable default for location shari

It seems a bit extreme to offer apps one of two extremes: either my sub-metre location or no location at all. It seems the reasonable default for location sharing should be something like sharing the rough suburb that I'm in. This solves most use-cases such as showing closest store locations, delivery options, dating apps showing nearby matches, etc. It's only the occasional navigation app that needs to know exactly where the user is located.

olliej 7y ago
That’s why iOS 13 added a share location once button, in addition to the existing share forever and share forever even when the app isn’t running.
- benjoffe 7y ago
  That's a good feature but quite different, if the user is at home when they need to use the app that first time then it reveals where the user lives and possibly personally identifies them.
  - nitrogen 7y ago
    Your IP address when on WiFi almost certainly can be connected to a specific address by a databroker. That doesn't mean location shouldn't be limited in resolution, but there are other ways to get the same thing.
    - gbear605 7y ago
      The ip address is also not going to be shared with apps anymore starting in iOS 13
      - ta8347 7y ago
        How? When an app makes an API request, the client IP address is (necessarily) exposed to the server.
        gbear605 7y ago
        Oh, you’re right of course, I was misremembering that they won’t be able to get the ssids of nearby wifi networks. However, a vpn is a solution to the ip address problem.
    - skrause 7y ago
      My ISP rotates IP addresses between users, so you can't match IPs to addresses. Quite often GeoIP doesn't even get my city right.
    - Veen 7y ago
      Isn’t is usually SSIDs that are used for location mapping of WiFi access points. The mapping cars gather that information when they’re doing street view stuff.
    - CaptainMarvel 7y ago
      There is a difference between sharing your IP address with a data broker to maybe get your location (which may not even be possible with GDPR?), and having your exact GPS coordinates sent directly to your database.
nichochar 7y ago
underrated idea! This is a great idea, and easy to implement.
ultrarunner 7y ago
I specifically get directions “home” to a neighbor’s house a bit away. Once I know where I am, I kill Google Maps. I’m sure they could, if they wanted to badly enough, figure the whole thing out, but at least my profile has a certain amount of uncertainty (though what utility that has is probably debatable). I would love to be able to fuzz my location within a certain (randomized?) radius of my home for certain apps. Strava has a ‘privacy circle’ that essentially accomplishes this when sharing GPX tracks of runs around one’s home. An OS-level feature would be fantastic in many cases.
- Fronzie 7y ago
  Have you ever checked https://www.google.com/maps/timeline?pb https://www.google.com/maps/timeline?pb to see? In my case, google knows where my phone is during the night: at home.
  - ilikehurdles 7y ago
    “No visited places”
    - Nextgrid 7y ago
      None that they want to show you. I'm sure they still have the data and use it silently.
      - ilikehurdles 7y ago
        Absolutely. I generally don’t use Google Maps except as a fallback for when Apple maps isn't giving me what I’m looking for.
      - Karunamon 7y ago
        Based on what data?
        Fronzie 7y ago
soohyung 7y ago
People are actually working on something very similar to this in research [1]. By applying random noise to location data the user's individual privacy can be protected while still allowing for collection of usage (or in this case location) statistics etc. This is the key idea behind local differential privacy (which Apple also uses to collect anonymous statistics on usage data [2]). [1] http://www.shivakasiviswanathan.com/ICDE16b.pdf http://www.shivakasiviswanathan.com/ICDE16b.pdf [2] https://machinelearning.apple.com/docs/learning-with-privacy-at-scale/appledifferentialprivacysystem.pdf https://machinelearning.apple.com/docs/learning-with-privacy...
chippy 7y ago
Yahoo's Fireagle was an attempt to make a "Location broker" for apps. You could allow applications as much or as little detail as you like. I think it was a product before it's time. Would this be possible with todays phone and hardware etc?

olliej 7y ago

That’s why iOS 13 added a share location once button, in addition to the existing share forever and share forever even when the app isn’t running.

benjoffe 7y ago
That's a good feature but quite different, if the user is at home when they need to use the app that first time then it reveals where the user lives and possibly personally identifies them.
- nitrogen 7y ago
  Your IP address when on WiFi almost certainly can be connected to a specific address by a databroker. That doesn't mean location shouldn't be limited in resolution, but there are other ways to get the same thing.
  - gbear605 7y ago
    The ip address is also not going to be shared with apps anymore starting in iOS 13
    - ta8347 7y ago
      How? When an app makes an API request, the client IP address is (necessarily) exposed to the server.
      - gbear605 7y ago
        Oh, you’re right of course, I was misremembering that they won’t be able to get the ssids of nearby wifi networks. However, a vpn is a solution to the ip address problem.
  - skrause 7y ago
    My ISP rotates IP addresses between users, so you can't match IPs to addresses. Quite often GeoIP doesn't even get my city right.
  - Veen 7y ago
    Isn’t is usually SSIDs that are used for location mapping of WiFi access points. The mapping cars gather that information when they’re doing street view stuff.
  - CaptainMarvel 7y ago
    There is a difference between sharing your IP address with a data broker to maybe get your location (which may not even be possible with GDPR?), and having your exact GPS coordinates sent directly to your database.

nichochar 7y ago

underrated idea! This is a great idea, and easy to implement.

ultrarunner 7y ago

I specifically get directions “home” to a neighbor’s house a bit away. Once I know where I am, I kill Google Maps. I’m sure they could, if they wanted to badly enough, figure the whole thing out, but at least my profile has a certain amount of uncertainty (though what utility that has is probably debatable). I would love to be able to fuzz my location within a certain (randomized?) radius of my home for certain apps. Strava has a ‘privacy circle’ that essentially accomplishes this when sharing GPX tracks of runs around one’s home. An OS-level feature would be fantastic in many cases.

Fronzie 7y ago
Have you ever checked https://www.google.com/maps/timeline?pb https://www.google.com/maps/timeline?pb to see? In my case, google knows where my phone is during the night: at home.
- ilikehurdles 7y ago
  “No visited places”
  - Nextgrid 7y ago
    None that they want to show you. I'm sure they still have the data and use it silently.
    - ilikehurdles 7y ago
      Absolutely. I generally don’t use Google Maps except as a fallback for when Apple maps isn't giving me what I’m looking for.
    - Karunamon 7y ago
      Based on what data?
      - Fronzie 7y ago

soohyung 7y ago

People are actually working on something very similar to this in research [1]. By applying random noise to location data the user's individual privacy can be protected while still allowing for collection of usage (or in this case location) statistics etc. This is the key idea behind local differential privacy (which Apple also uses to collect anonymous statistics on usage data [2]). [1] http://www.shivakasiviswanathan.com/ICDE16b.pdf http://www.shivakasiviswanathan.com/ICDE16b.pdf [2] https://machinelearning.apple.com/docs/learning-with-privacy-at-scale/appledifferentialprivacysystem.pdf https://machinelearning.apple.com/docs/learning-with-privacy...

chippy 7y ago

Yahoo's Fireagle was an attempt to make a "Location broker" for apps. You could allow applications as much or as little detail as you like. I think it was a product before it's time. Would this be possible with todays phone and hardware etc?