8 ms·

There's a pretty wide gap between what you think is Constitutional and what U.S. courts think. Virginia law notwithstanding, elsewhere in the U.S., driving is

There's a pretty wide gap between what you think is Constitutional and what U.S. courts think. Virginia law notwithstanding, elsewhere in the U.S., driving is not a right and never has been. Per U.S. Supreme Court law, freedom to travel includes the freedom to cross state lines, but that right does not extend to any particular mode of travel. You're free to walk, but not necessarily to drive or fly (notwithstanding 49 U.S.C. 40103, because Congress subsequently restricted that right in 49 U.S.C. 44901-44902). Otherwise, you'd just be able to walk into an airport and board any flight you'd like without presenting identification. Similarly, if driving were a right, states would be forced to allow anyone behind a wheel (ok, at the helm of a 2-ton killdozer) without being properly trained or insured first.

geggam 7y ago
Problem being the interstate highways prohibit walking,horse riding and most "not automotive" methods of transportation. You have to drive a car to travel interstate.
- throwawayatty 7y ago
  Not every state border crossing is an Interstate highway having controlled access. In fact, most are not (US highways, county roads, etc.).
  - geggam 7y ago
    Most states do have no trespassing signs on the rights of ways though. Try walking around the nation and see how much police interaction you get :)
    - throwawayatty 7y ago
      > Most states do have no trespassing signs on the rights of ways though. No, no they don't. Private property does; and controlled-access highways do; but definitely not ordinary public highways.
      - geggam 7y ago
        The Illinois State Police can confirm that on August 11, 2018, Mr. David Weaver was arrested by the ISP and cited for the following offenses at the scene of a multi vehicle personal injury crash that resulted in multi vehicle fires: Criminal Trespass to Real Property, Failure to Yield to Emergency Vehicles, Stopping Parking or Standing on Roadway, and Walking Improperly on the roadway. This case remains open and ongoing in the court system, therefore we have no further comment at this time. The Illinois State Police's primary goal at the scene of a critical incident, and at all times, is the safety and well-being of all members of the public. https://pressfreedomtracker.us/all-incidents/illinois-state-police-trooper-arrests-journalist-trespassing-scene-car-crash/ https://pressfreedomtracker.us/all-incidents/illinois-state-...
        throwawayatty 7y ago
        Indeed, it is unlawful to walk on a controlled-access highway, as was the case here (Interstate 88).
        mindslight 7y ago
        The linked article has a photo that shows many people walking on that controlled access highway, many right in the middle. Were they all arrested? It's orthogonal to the general right to travel freely, but the story does demonstrate how overly broad procedural laws end up being selectively and inappropriately enforced to persecute under the color of law.
        objectivetruth 7y ago
        So, I-88 is a controlled-access interstate highway, and the parent poster above you acknowledged that pedestrians are not allowed on those (at least in Illinois). THAT is what the italicized charge is for. The parent is correct in that pedestrians ARE allowed alongside an "ordinary public highway" like IL-29 or a county highway.
- ceejayoz 7y ago
  > You have to drive a car to travel interstate. Uh… Airports? Trains? Walking? Taking the ferry? You can literally touch four states at once at Four Corners.
geggam 7y ago
BTW how do you restrict a right without due process or a constitutional amendment ?
- throwawayatty 7y ago
  The "due process" is you suing the Government if you think your Constitutional rights have been violated. See 42 U.S.C. Section 1983. Consider attending law school; it's very eye-opening.
  - geggam 7y ago
    Also very expensive. Asking the king permission to sue the king seems a bit like what the founders fought against than what they founded. I doubt I have time to attend law school, get a degree and sue the govt before things change drastically. Not sure for the better. Enjoyed the discussion.
mindslight 7y ago
> There's a pretty wide gap between what you think is Constitutional and what U.S. courts think. This is often brought out as if to imply that the courts are correct. But why wouldn't government courts tend to malinterpret the Constitution in favor of the government?

geggam 7y ago

Problem being the interstate highways prohibit walking,horse riding and most "not automotive" methods of transportation. You have to drive a car to travel interstate.

throwawayatty 7y ago
Not every state border crossing is an Interstate highway having controlled access. In fact, most are not (US highways, county roads, etc.).
- geggam 7y ago
  Most states do have no trespassing signs on the rights of ways though. Try walking around the nation and see how much police interaction you get :)
  - throwawayatty 7y ago
    > Most states do have no trespassing signs on the rights of ways though. No, no they don't. Private property does; and controlled-access highways do; but definitely not ordinary public highways.
    - geggam 7y ago
      The Illinois State Police can confirm that on August 11, 2018, Mr. David Weaver was arrested by the ISP and cited for the following offenses at the scene of a multi vehicle personal injury crash that resulted in multi vehicle fires: Criminal Trespass to Real Property, Failure to Yield to Emergency Vehicles, Stopping Parking or Standing on Roadway, and Walking Improperly on the roadway. This case remains open and ongoing in the court system, therefore we have no further comment at this time. The Illinois State Police's primary goal at the scene of a critical incident, and at all times, is the safety and well-being of all members of the public. https://pressfreedomtracker.us/all-incidents/illinois-state-police-trooper-arrests-journalist-trespassing-scene-car-crash/ https://pressfreedomtracker.us/all-incidents/illinois-state-...
      - throwawayatty 7y ago
        Indeed, it is unlawful to walk on a controlled-access highway, as was the case here (Interstate 88).
        mindslight 7y ago
        The linked article has a photo that shows many people walking on that controlled access highway, many right in the middle. Were they all arrested? It's orthogonal to the general right to travel freely, but the story does demonstrate how overly broad procedural laws end up being selectively and inappropriately enforced to persecute under the color of law.
      - objectivetruth 7y ago
        So, I-88 is a controlled-access interstate highway, and the parent poster above you acknowledged that pedestrians are not allowed on those (at least in Illinois). THAT is what the italicized charge is for. The parent is correct in that pedestrians ARE allowed alongside an "ordinary public highway" like IL-29 or a county highway.
ceejayoz 7y ago
> You have to drive a car to travel interstate. Uh… Airports? Trains? Walking? Taking the ferry? You can literally touch four states at once at Four Corners.

geggam 7y ago

BTW how do you restrict a right without due process or a constitutional amendment ?

throwawayatty 7y ago
The "due process" is you suing the Government if you think your Constitutional rights have been violated. See 42 U.S.C. Section 1983. Consider attending law school; it's very eye-opening.
- geggam 7y ago
  Also very expensive. Asking the king permission to sue the king seems a bit like what the founders fought against than what they founded. I doubt I have time to attend law school, get a degree and sue the govt before things change drastically. Not sure for the better. Enjoyed the discussion.

mindslight 7y ago

> There's a pretty wide gap between what you think is Constitutional and what U.S. courts think. This is often brought out as if to imply that the courts are correct. But why wouldn't government courts tend to malinterpret the Constitution in favor of the government?