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I'm pretty amazed that people on this forum are so quick to jump on the side of an authoritarian right-wing government over press freedom.

SuddsMcDuff 7y ago
What a misguided comment. There are no "sides" here. Unless you think that any criticism of journalistic practices puts me on "the other team". Grow up!
- notgonnakeep 7y ago
  So, if journalists catch wind of the government being involved in illegal activity, they should just sit down and shut up because it's not their place to publish it. Don't see bootlickers too often on HN, but here you are.
  - SuddsMcDuff 7y ago
    Journalists should know that if they walk the fine line between legal and illegal then they run the risk of being investigated. If they're confident they're on the right side of the law then they have little to worry about. What I take exception to is their attitude, as if it's some great affront to decency and democracy that they should come under any kind of scrutiny. I don't see many people hurling childish insults on HN, but here you are.
- notgonnakeep 7y ago
  It seems I can't reply to your other comment, so I'll address it here: >Journalists should know that if they walk the fine line between legal and illegal then they run the risk of being investigated. Sure, no disagreements there. >If they're confident they're on the right side of the law then they have little to worry about. This is not the issue, the issue here is clearly intimidation by government entities that wish to silence the media. Right side of the law doesn't matter to the law if you have the right dirt. The right dirt will get your killed. >What I take exception to is their attitude, as if it's some great affront to decency and democracy that they should come under any kind of scrutiny. It certainly is a great affront to decency and democracy when the work the journalists are involved in is exposing behavior unfitting for the government. We're not talking about twitter accounts being suspended for saying unsavory things, we're talking about large organizations being raided by the entities they are investigating. Clearly these are distinct situations. >I don't see many people hurling childish insults on HN, but here you are. I call it like I see it. People like you are the reason that so much of our world is non-transparent. You might be ok with that, I am not.
sonnyblarney 7y ago
Australia, one of the most open, free and fair places in the world, into which millions are trying to migrate because of this ... is now a 'right wing authoritarian state'? I think we need to look at the specific information in question. FYI here's a summary of Australia shield laws [1] (sorry, it's not very good) [1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/07/australia-journalist-protection-shield-laws https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/07/australia-jour...
- anonymousDan 7y ago
  Uhm, doctors and medical professionals wanting to expose the rape and abuse of child refugees on Nauru might disagree with you.
  - sonnyblarney 7y ago
    Disagree with which part? Exposing illegal activity would seem to be confidently within the bounds of 'whistle blowing'.
    - cyphar 7y ago
      There have been numerous attempts to have independent investigations of the abuses in Nauru and Manus Island and they've been blocked many times by the government. There is also evidence of child rape by the guards of these modern-day internment camps, with no resolution that I've hear of by the government. The government is not interested in investigating these hideous abuses and conditions at all. In fact they were trying to find the whistleblowers (probably to prosecute them) rather than investigating the allegations of rape and torture[1]. [1]: https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/federal-government-asks-australian-federal-police-to-find-nauru-whistleblowers-20150930-gjyj0i.html https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/federal-government-a...
- cyphar 7y ago
  > Australia, one of the most open, free and fair places in the world I'm not sure what Australia you live in. We are currently torturing asylum seekers, with unlimited detention periods (the only nation on earth who allows this). A recent whistleblower that showed corruption within the ATO (to Americans: the IRS) is facing charges that would land him with 160 years in prison. We've neglected and abused the native population to the point that Aboriginal teenager suicide rates are among the highest in the world. Our education system is failing to the point where our education system has the same standards as third world nations -- we rank lower in science and maths than Kazakhstan. In 2015, laws were passed to punish whistleblowers, journalists, AND THE PUBLIC if ASIO (Americans: the NSA) information becomes public. We are the only nation on earth to pass draconian anti-privacy laws that other nations' leaders can only dream of. We don't have any laws guaranteeing freedom of speech, privacy, or any other freedoms we take for granted -- and we are the only western democracy where this is the case. Don't get me wrong, I hope Australia does get better -- after all, I deeply want it to because I've grown up here. But if you think that the Australia of today is in any way "one of the most open, free and fair places in the world" you're simply mistaken. Yes it's better than living in Saudi Arabia but that shouldn't be an accomplishment.

SuddsMcDuff 7y ago

What a misguided comment. There are no "sides" here. Unless you think that any criticism of journalistic practices puts me on "the other team". Grow up!

notgonnakeep 7y ago
So, if journalists catch wind of the government being involved in illegal activity, they should just sit down and shut up because it's not their place to publish it. Don't see bootlickers too often on HN, but here you are.
- SuddsMcDuff 7y ago
  Journalists should know that if they walk the fine line between legal and illegal then they run the risk of being investigated. If they're confident they're on the right side of the law then they have little to worry about. What I take exception to is their attitude, as if it's some great affront to decency and democracy that they should come under any kind of scrutiny. I don't see many people hurling childish insults on HN, but here you are.
notgonnakeep 7y ago
It seems I can't reply to your other comment, so I'll address it here: >Journalists should know that if they walk the fine line between legal and illegal then they run the risk of being investigated. Sure, no disagreements there. >If they're confident they're on the right side of the law then they have little to worry about. This is not the issue, the issue here is clearly intimidation by government entities that wish to silence the media. Right side of the law doesn't matter to the law if you have the right dirt. The right dirt will get your killed. >What I take exception to is their attitude, as if it's some great affront to decency and democracy that they should come under any kind of scrutiny. It certainly is a great affront to decency and democracy when the work the journalists are involved in is exposing behavior unfitting for the government. We're not talking about twitter accounts being suspended for saying unsavory things, we're talking about large organizations being raided by the entities they are investigating. Clearly these are distinct situations. >I don't see many people hurling childish insults on HN, but here you are. I call it like I see it. People like you are the reason that so much of our world is non-transparent. You might be ok with that, I am not.

sonnyblarney 7y ago

Australia, one of the most open, free and fair places in the world, into which millions are trying to migrate because of this ... is now a 'right wing authoritarian state'? I think we need to look at the specific information in question. FYI here's a summary of Australia shield laws [1] (sorry, it's not very good) [1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/07/australia-journalist-protection-shield-laws https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/07/australia-jour...

anonymousDan 7y ago
Uhm, doctors and medical professionals wanting to expose the rape and abuse of child refugees on Nauru might disagree with you.
- sonnyblarney 7y ago
  Disagree with which part? Exposing illegal activity would seem to be confidently within the bounds of 'whistle blowing'.
  - cyphar 7y ago
    There have been numerous attempts to have independent investigations of the abuses in Nauru and Manus Island and they've been blocked many times by the government. There is also evidence of child rape by the guards of these modern-day internment camps, with no resolution that I've hear of by the government. The government is not interested in investigating these hideous abuses and conditions at all. In fact they were trying to find the whistleblowers (probably to prosecute them) rather than investigating the allegations of rape and torture[1]. [1]: https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/federal-government-asks-australian-federal-police-to-find-nauru-whistleblowers-20150930-gjyj0i.html https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/federal-government-a...
cyphar 7y ago
> Australia, one of the most open, free and fair places in the world I'm not sure what Australia you live in. We are currently torturing asylum seekers, with unlimited detention periods (the only nation on earth who allows this). A recent whistleblower that showed corruption within the ATO (to Americans: the IRS) is facing charges that would land him with 160 years in prison. We've neglected and abused the native population to the point that Aboriginal teenager suicide rates are among the highest in the world. Our education system is failing to the point where our education system has the same standards as third world nations -- we rank lower in science and maths than Kazakhstan. In 2015, laws were passed to punish whistleblowers, journalists, AND THE PUBLIC if ASIO (Americans: the NSA) information becomes public. We are the only nation on earth to pass draconian anti-privacy laws that other nations' leaders can only dream of. We don't have any laws guaranteeing freedom of speech, privacy, or any other freedoms we take for granted -- and we are the only western democracy where this is the case. Don't get me wrong, I hope Australia does get better -- after all, I deeply want it to because I've grown up here. But if you think that the Australia of today is in any way "one of the most open, free and fair places in the world" you're simply mistaken. Yes it's better than living in Saudi Arabia but that shouldn't be an accomplishment.