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Most HN comments are gratuitously mean or incorrect, but it has good technical comments. This is so true. Posting work I've done on Show HN is like going back

by dosy 7y ago

Most HN comments are gratuitously mean or incorrect, but it has good technical comments. This is so true. Posting work I've done on Show HN is like going back to an abusive relationship with someone who just wants to crush, dismiss and ridicule every creative thing you ever did or wanted to do. I've spent a lot of (necessary, but still feels wasted) time getting over the trauma of commenters on Show HN and their cruelty. I find their comments contribute to the self-doubt inner narrative I have and I hate that, particularly the idea that some random abusive person on the internet can influence your future choices by convincing you you are stupid, or your work is bad or whatever. But I consider I just have to find my own way to get stronger about this and to somehow be resilient to that. Because people are like that every where you go. In processing this emotional/comment abuse trauma, I also have spent quite a lot of time thinking about what makes each person say something mean, when they could have pointed out something in a considerate way. I think the path to become an abusive HN commenter is different for each person who goes that way, but one thing I think must be behind it is people who feel crushed, or dismissed creatively themselves, and wanting to perpetrate that on other people as a substitute for making something themselves. It's common that the meanest commenters don't have any "submissions" or at least no personal "this is something I did" submissions. Creative communities don't have to be like this. OpenProcessing, Glitch are some very supportive places I've seen for creative work. IndieHackers, Product Hunt, the same. Here it seems that the community "tolerates" this behavior and possibly views it as some sort of sport or entertainment, as unhealthy as that is. I'm not dissing entertainment like that, it has its place, I just wish/expect it were not here. But that leads to a second theory I have about abusive commenters, that this is a "tech" or engineer thing, and not a creative person thing. Tech has an asshole problem, and maybe there's correlation between people who are technically good, but emotionally abusive or lacking in empathy. I find often mean comments are disguised as not, to give the abuser an "out" or plausible deniability. So they get to perpetrate their cruelty under a cover of just being helpful, or whatever. Anyone want to share some strategies they have for processing this trauma in an efficient way, or some strong responses they have for it?

buboard 7y ago
You should not read the feedback in show HN seriously. HN is good for the exposure and traffic it generates, and it helps that the links are also picked up by a few blogs, aggregators, and even the media may pick it up and write an article about you. But don't rely on individual opinions and don't take them seriously, instead do your own a/b testing with your product. HN is no longer a community of hustlers the way indiehackers is so you 're not going to get any high fives or enouragement, unless you pander to the sensitivities of the crowd here, which are overwhelmingly corporate employees. The best way to get over it is to see the reactions rationally, and understand where they come from. Don't read further into it than you should be. Instead pay more attention to the opinions of your users.
- dosy 7y ago
  I really appreciate this comment, it's helping me to put it in perspective.
hutzlibu 7y ago
Well, you should be aware that a lot of people who spend a lot of time on HN are bitter, because their own ideas did not flourish and they are stuck in a mediocre job, so wandering on HN and alike to get inspirational spirit, but with jealousy, so not eager to love new things at first sight, but to smash them. But they are also able to applaud something if they love it. So of course it is possible that your work is not the best, if random internet strangers can crush it easily. I found HN to be a much nicer place than most other places on the internet, but still, you should not expect anonymous people to be nice. Not in this internet, not in this world with all its freaky, unhappy people. Happy people usually have other things to tend to, that makes them happy, than posting all the time. So don't take it too personal. View it as a challenge and don't try to please a internetmob.
- klez 7y ago
  > you should be aware that a lot of people who spend a lot of time on HN are bitter, because their own ideas did not flourish and they are stuck in a mediocre job, so wandering on HN and alike to get inspirational spirit, but with jealousy That's quite an assumption, don't you think?
  - hutzlibu 7y ago
    Yes it is. And I know, I got no data to back it up, just experience and logic. And yes, there are some people who really like to post a lot here and enjoy it. But they are the exception.
- dosy 7y ago
  Thank you very much. I found your comment helpful by giving some perspective about why people do it and how that helps to not take it seriously. It's reasonable.
rizzin 7y ago
>But that leads to a second theory I have about abusive commenters, that this is a "tech" or engineer thing, and not a creative person thing. Don't think it's specifically tech-related. Probably goes deeper. One of my hobbies is music, I play in a live rock band and frequently meet other bands. A feature of fellow amateur musicians that stands out the most to me is how often they are dismissive and snobbish towards other musicians. I've been in bands and amateur musicians' circles in two very different countries, and people in both had this thing going on! It's bizarre. And coming on to the next point... >Tech has an asshole problem, and maybe there's correlation between people who are technically good, but emotionally abusive or lacking in empathy. I've seen this behavior from people that are pretty proficient at their instruments more often than from newbies, too!
- dosy 7y ago
  That's an interesting perspective about the behavior not being unique to tech. Thank you, I found it helpful to consider.
CM30 7y ago
The main thing to consider here is that Hacker News probably isn't your audience. Unless your product or service is aimed at developers/software engineers first and foremost, the probability of it getting relevant feedback via Show HN is slim. And to some degree, that's one of the big reasons why this community can be so harsh or mean. Because for the kind of person who uses this site, many of these Show HN projects feel like things they'd be able to build themselves, or which can be done better via some simple technical process. I mean, look at Dropbox. People here were real harsh towards that one, and didn't understand the market potential for it at all. It's also subject to the same trends as other expert focused communities, in that experts in a field/creators in a field will usually be harsher towards others in said fields than the general public will be. They know how the work is done, and are looking for technical novelty in such rather than the content of the work. So don't take it too seriously, remember that people here probably aren't your audience and that they're likely to be significantly harsher/more dismissive than the general public is.
- dosy 7y ago
  Thank you for this. Your comment is useful to me, especially the point on DIY, novelty and Dropbox.
cloverich 7y ago
Two thoughts - on cause and on dealing with it. For the affinity of assholes in technical fields, I see two things push people towards it. One is the work (engineering) pushes you to look for edge cases, flaws, etc, and fix them. The second, highly related imho, is that technical people frequently work for non-technical people who tell them what to do. Often in a way that leaves out lots of important details. I think that creates this inner frustration where people who may be good at leading projects architecturally instead constantly clean up bad plans. I don't think this is everyone or the cause of everything, just a supporting thread i see in a lot of people. As for dealing with it (and negativity elsewhere) I've been trying to train myself to focus on the positive. Not in some head in the sand type way, but more in realizing where negativity and positivity goes. Negativity, dwelling on mistakes and flaws, etc -- they don't get you anywhere. They get you nothing. They make you feel worse. Moreover, _searching_ for the positive does more than just let you find opportunity. It affects how you see the world. And it gives you more chances to improve it. Because instead of dwelling, you use that energy to look for ways to change things. Or make things. Or network. Or find luck. Its not as simple as deciding one day to be happy. But becoming aware of the tendencies and making a concerted effort to search out the positives, it changes you over time.
- dosy 7y ago
  I really appreciated your your explanation of cause about finding fixes and edge cases, and being incompetently managed, and found your notion of making the effort to search for the positive very helpful, thank you.

by dosy 7y ago

buboard 7y ago

You should not read the feedback in show HN seriously. HN is good for the exposure and traffic it generates, and it helps that the links are also picked up by a few blogs, aggregators, and even the media may pick it up and write an article about you. But don't rely on individual opinions and don't take them seriously, instead do your own a/b testing with your product. HN is no longer a community of hustlers the way indiehackers is so you 're not going to get any high fives or enouragement, unless you pander to the sensitivities of the crowd here, which are overwhelmingly corporate employees. The best way to get over it is to see the reactions rationally, and understand where they come from. Don't read further into it than you should be. Instead pay more attention to the opinions of your users.

dosy 7y ago
I really appreciate this comment, it's helping me to put it in perspective.

hutzlibu 7y ago

Well, you should be aware that a lot of people who spend a lot of time on HN are bitter, because their own ideas did not flourish and they are stuck in a mediocre job, so wandering on HN and alike to get inspirational spirit, but with jealousy, so not eager to love new things at first sight, but to smash them. But they are also able to applaud something if they love it. So of course it is possible that your work is not the best, if random internet strangers can crush it easily. I found HN to be a much nicer place than most other places on the internet, but still, you should not expect anonymous people to be nice. Not in this internet, not in this world with all its freaky, unhappy people. Happy people usually have other things to tend to, that makes them happy, than posting all the time. So don't take it too personal. View it as a challenge and don't try to please a internetmob.

klez 7y ago
> you should be aware that a lot of people who spend a lot of time on HN are bitter, because their own ideas did not flourish and they are stuck in a mediocre job, so wandering on HN and alike to get inspirational spirit, but with jealousy That's quite an assumption, don't you think?
- hutzlibu 7y ago
  Yes it is. And I know, I got no data to back it up, just experience and logic. And yes, there are some people who really like to post a lot here and enjoy it. But they are the exception.
dosy 7y ago
Thank you very much. I found your comment helpful by giving some perspective about why people do it and how that helps to not take it seriously. It's reasonable.

rizzin 7y ago

>But that leads to a second theory I have about abusive commenters, that this is a "tech" or engineer thing, and not a creative person thing. Don't think it's specifically tech-related. Probably goes deeper. One of my hobbies is music, I play in a live rock band and frequently meet other bands. A feature of fellow amateur musicians that stands out the most to me is how often they are dismissive and snobbish towards other musicians. I've been in bands and amateur musicians' circles in two very different countries, and people in both had this thing going on! It's bizarre. And coming on to the next point... >Tech has an asshole problem, and maybe there's correlation between people who are technically good, but emotionally abusive or lacking in empathy. I've seen this behavior from people that are pretty proficient at their instruments more often than from newbies, too!

dosy 7y ago
That's an interesting perspective about the behavior not being unique to tech. Thank you, I found it helpful to consider.

CM30 7y ago

The main thing to consider here is that Hacker News probably isn't your audience. Unless your product or service is aimed at developers/software engineers first and foremost, the probability of it getting relevant feedback via Show HN is slim. And to some degree, that's one of the big reasons why this community can be so harsh or mean. Because for the kind of person who uses this site, many of these Show HN projects feel like things they'd be able to build themselves, or which can be done better via some simple technical process. I mean, look at Dropbox. People here were real harsh towards that one, and didn't understand the market potential for it at all. It's also subject to the same trends as other expert focused communities, in that experts in a field/creators in a field will usually be harsher towards others in said fields than the general public will be. They know how the work is done, and are looking for technical novelty in such rather than the content of the work. So don't take it too seriously, remember that people here probably aren't your audience and that they're likely to be significantly harsher/more dismissive than the general public is.

dosy 7y ago
Thank you for this. Your comment is useful to me, especially the point on DIY, novelty and Dropbox.

cloverich 7y ago

Two thoughts - on cause and on dealing with it. For the affinity of assholes in technical fields, I see two things push people towards it. One is the work (engineering) pushes you to look for edge cases, flaws, etc, and fix them. The second, highly related imho, is that technical people frequently work for non-technical people who tell them what to do. Often in a way that leaves out lots of important details. I think that creates this inner frustration where people who may be good at leading projects architecturally instead constantly clean up bad plans. I don't think this is everyone or the cause of everything, just a supporting thread i see in a lot of people. As for dealing with it (and negativity elsewhere) I've been trying to train myself to focus on the positive. Not in some head in the sand type way, but more in realizing where negativity and positivity goes. Negativity, dwelling on mistakes and flaws, etc -- they don't get you anywhere. They get you nothing. They make you feel worse. Moreover, _searching_ for the positive does more than just let you find opportunity. It affects how you see the world. And it gives you more chances to improve it. Because instead of dwelling, you use that energy to look for ways to change things. Or make things. Or network. Or find luck. Its not as simple as deciding one day to be happy. But becoming aware of the tendencies and making a concerted effort to search out the positives, it changes you over time.

dosy 7y ago
I really appreciated your your explanation of cause about finding fixes and edge cases, and being incompetently managed, and found your notion of making the effort to search for the positive very helpful, thank you.