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So you think it "very unlikely" that someone more intelligent would make better decisions, and those decisions have better outcomes enabling someone to live in

So you think it "very unlikely" that someone more intelligent would make better decisions, and those decisions have better outcomes enabling someone to live in a pricier neighborhood?

objectivetruth 7y ago
The vast majority of people in a ZIP code are not homeowners or leaseholders. You're neglecting most family members and a plethora of other people that aren't mobile, also that ZIP codes can be incredibly stratified. Households aren't predictable particles in a simulator, either: the real world isn't some SimCity simulation where dumb people go to shitty schools, get shitty jobs, live in shitty neighborhoods and therefore everyone in a shitty neighborhood or shitty job is consequently dumb. I think you're attempting to use ZIP code as a proxy for socioeconomic class, and then presuming a correlation between intelligence and socioeconomic class. It's a really simplistic model that seems intuitive but has a lot of problems if you're using it to judge real live human beings and/or make policy decisions.
Spooky23 7y ago
Rich people don’t have a monopoly on intelligence. I doubt you’d see much correlation between wealth and IQ. Income, yes, but not wealth.
- skookumchuck 7y ago
  I didn't posit they did. But I'd expect a correlation. > Income, yes, but not wealth. Why is that? Wealth is just an accumulation of income.
  - Spooky23 7y ago
    You need to be a specialist to be worth a high salary. The dumbest doctor is a smart guy. The worst MLB player was the superstar of his Little League. Many people with high incomes are not wealthy at all -- they have no money. To be wealthy, you just need to have assets and not do dumb things. Wealthy people either inherited it or had a liquidity event. Nobody gets rich via income. There is some intelligence involved in the liquidity part, but also alot of luck. If you have inherited property in NYC in the last 40 years and didn't sell it, you are wealthy. If you operate a McDonald's franchise, you are wealthy, and probably are of average intelligence.
    - skookumchuck 7y ago
      > Nobody gets rich via income. 85% of American millionaires are self-made (i.e. first generation). "The Millionaire Next Door" https://www.amazon.com/Millionaire-Next-Door-Surprising-Americas/dp/1589795474 https://www.amazon.com/Millionaire-Next-Door-Surprising-Amer...
      - Spooky23 7y ago
        The vast majority of that is retirement savings, and the number of those folks has ballooned as defined benefit pensions have been discontinued.
        skookumchuck 7y ago
        From page 8, only 1 in 5 is retired. Even so, claiming that retirement savings do not count as wealth seems rather odd. You can choose to read the book and determine how it is done, and what you can choose to do to become a millionaire yourself, or you can choose to remain a victim of fate. Your choice.
Falling3 7y ago
Well first, we're talking about the zip code one is raised in not the zip code one ends up in later in life. Second, we're discussing the efficacy of IQ as an actual measure of intelligence. You're assuming IQ is a good measure of intelligence in order to prove IQ is a good measure of intelligence. Sure, zip codes are a proxy for IQ if we accept that IQs test something other than just intelligence. Finally, the causal relationship you have set up between intelligence and quality of living situation, while undoubtedly true to _some_ extent, ignores everything we know about system racism, system sexism, our horrific healthcare system and a host of other factors that complicate this idea - at least in the US.

So you think it "very unlikely" that someone more intelligent would make better decisions, and those decisions have better outcomes enabling someone to live in a pricier neighborhood?

objectivetruth 7y ago

The vast majority of people in a ZIP code are not homeowners or leaseholders. You're neglecting most family members and a plethora of other people that aren't mobile, also that ZIP codes can be incredibly stratified. Households aren't predictable particles in a simulator, either: the real world isn't some SimCity simulation where dumb people go to shitty schools, get shitty jobs, live in shitty neighborhoods and therefore everyone in a shitty neighborhood or shitty job is consequently dumb. I think you're attempting to use ZIP code as a proxy for socioeconomic class, and then presuming a correlation between intelligence and socioeconomic class. It's a really simplistic model that seems intuitive but has a lot of problems if you're using it to judge real live human beings and/or make policy decisions.

Spooky23 7y ago

Rich people don’t have a monopoly on intelligence. I doubt you’d see much correlation between wealth and IQ. Income, yes, but not wealth.

skookumchuck 7y ago
I didn't posit they did. But I'd expect a correlation. > Income, yes, but not wealth. Why is that? Wealth is just an accumulation of income.
- Spooky23 7y ago
  You need to be a specialist to be worth a high salary. The dumbest doctor is a smart guy. The worst MLB player was the superstar of his Little League. Many people with high incomes are not wealthy at all -- they have no money. To be wealthy, you just need to have assets and not do dumb things. Wealthy people either inherited it or had a liquidity event. Nobody gets rich via income. There is some intelligence involved in the liquidity part, but also alot of luck. If you have inherited property in NYC in the last 40 years and didn't sell it, you are wealthy. If you operate a McDonald's franchise, you are wealthy, and probably are of average intelligence.
  - skookumchuck 7y ago
    > Nobody gets rich via income. 85% of American millionaires are self-made (i.e. first generation). "The Millionaire Next Door" https://www.amazon.com/Millionaire-Next-Door-Surprising-Americas/dp/1589795474 https://www.amazon.com/Millionaire-Next-Door-Surprising-Amer...
    - Spooky23 7y ago
      The vast majority of that is retirement savings, and the number of those folks has ballooned as defined benefit pensions have been discontinued.
      - skookumchuck 7y ago
        From page 8, only 1 in 5 is retired. Even so, claiming that retirement savings do not count as wealth seems rather odd. You can choose to read the book and determine how it is done, and what you can choose to do to become a millionaire yourself, or you can choose to remain a victim of fate. Your choice.

Falling3 7y ago

Well first, we're talking about the zip code one is raised in not the zip code one ends up in later in life. Second, we're discussing the efficacy of IQ as an actual measure of intelligence. You're assuming IQ is a good measure of intelligence in order to prove IQ is a good measure of intelligence. Sure, zip codes are a proxy for IQ if we accept that IQs test something other than just intelligence. Finally, the causal relationship you have set up between intelligence and quality of living situation, while undoubtedly true to _some_ extent, ignores everything we know about system racism, system sexism, our horrific healthcare system and a host of other factors that complicate this idea - at least in the US.