6 ms·

Ask HN: How to hire digital nomads nearby?

20 points by schtono 7y ago

Here's a real problem that no one seems to have solved yet: In my company, we would need temporary help with a certain technology for a few months. Freelancers in my city are fully booked. Yet I don't want to hire somebody remote because the job requires people to work closely together in the same room on a regular basis. I know there's a ton of "digital nomads" out there, travelling through cheap countries like Thailand, working from nice beaches. But my city (Munich, Germany) is also very lovely, especially in summer. I cannot find any "marketplace" where digital nomads hang out, waiting to be attracted by an amazing company like ours. The typical freelancer marketplaces like upwork don't seem to cover my search requirements. Questions: - Am I simply missing a marketplace? - Or is this an opportunity to take?

onion2k 7y ago
Yet I don't want to hire somebody remote because the job requires people to work closely together in the same room on a regular basis. Does it really?
- DoofusOfDeath 7y ago
  For the sake of everyone involved, I suggest a company is remote either entirely or not at all. So if everyone else is in the office, I would consider being in the same room a requirement.
  - stephenr 7y ago
    That doesn't reflect reality at all.
akg_67 7y ago
Create a coworking space, offer space for meetups, promote to digital nomads, offer free/discounted use of coworking space to digital nomads. I saw this strategy working in Japan. Several IT companies have coworking space that can be used for ¥100 to ¥1,000 per day. You don't care about digital nomads in ROW, you care about digital nomads visiting your city, you need a way to find and connect with them.
- vincvinc 7y ago
  Could you share a few examples of this kind of coworking space in Japan? Very interesting!
toomuchtodo 7y ago
Perhaps the problem is your company can't manage remote workers effectively? It is very rare work must be done with everyone colocated unless physical hardware is involved.
Qwertystop 7y ago
I would expect that most people who are "digital nomads" are doing so because they can do their work from anywhere, not because they're looking for a job. If the lifestyle of "work on a laptop while traveling the world" appeals to someone, they're probably not looking for a job that requires staying put and working in an office for a few months.
danroc 7y ago
What about platforms like https://remoteok.io https://remoteok.io or https://nomadlist.com https://nomadlist.com ?
bitL 7y ago
Digital nomads, not remote... Doesn't compute. Why would any real digital nomad that could spend every month at a different place around the world want to get stuck in Munich in subpar and overpriced housing with only 2-3 months a year of bearable weather and deal with German tax bureaucracy (need to have at least 2 clients in parallel or be forced to register themselves as a single person business with all the increased taxes and no corporate veil), not to mention that it would take years to find just one real German friend for normal social interactions?
- dhkxh 7y ago
  Do you have an opinion on life in Germany that you would like to share?
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- lm28469 7y ago
  > not to mention that it would take years to find just one real German friend for normal social interactions That's factually false and incompatible with your previous statement. > could spend every month at a different place around the world
  - bitL 7y ago
    I don't see any link. You e.g. go to Barcelona or Rio de Janeiro and you get a bunch of friends the moment you walk out of the door of your apartment (figuratively ofc), whereas in Germany it takes years to develop any closer relationship that could be qualified as something more than superficial friendship (i.e. nobody cares, unless you are useful in some way right away), and even those often get abruptly terminated in 15 minutes for whatever silly reason. In other words, for the month or year you spend in Munich, you won't make any friends unless super lucky, it'll be just about work unless you want to surf on a river or watch Bayern in action, etc. and "socialize" that way. Germany is also the only place I am aware of where two colleagues sharing the same desk at the same company for 20 years still address each other formally in Höflichkeitsform all the time (this is absolutely funny to people from Netherlands).
thiago_fm 7y ago
It's a hell to be a freelancer software dev in Germany. People can make much more money by doing that in London, which has proper/more flexible laws. I think you could hire a consultant. There are some great consultancies in Germany that might be able to have the professional you need.
- sam_lowry_ 7y ago
  As tax resident, it's a hell, but someone living and having existing business in Greece or nearby Belgium could actually work in Munich legally for up to half a year and do some nice tricks like paying the rent via the company.
  - badpun 7y ago
    Not exactly... From what I've heard, as long as you're staying in Germany (i.e. it is your primary residence) and you work there, they believe you should pay taxes there. The 183 days rule is more for cases when you have two comparable residences at the time (and you travel back and forth between them). Of course, people try their luck and contract using their non-German companies, but I've read on some forum that at least one guy was prosecuted (as in criminal charges, not to mention the taxes owed + fines) by Germans for that. A thing some people I know do is to fly into Germany every week for 3 or 4 days, stay in a hotel/airbnb, and then come back to home country (BTW, talk about carbon footprint of the tax laws...). This way, you have no residence in Germany at all, and also you're there for less than 183 days per year, so they really have no claim to your taxes. Of course, this "bedouin" lifestyle is not for the weak, and the company needs to be open to it (the partially remote work aspect) as well.
    - rahimnathwani 7y ago
      "This way, you have no residence in Germany at all, and also you're there for less than 183 days per year, so they really have no claim to your taxes." Be careful with this. I don't know about Germany in particular, but in many countries tax residency isn't as simple as whether you were present for >=183 days. Take the UK as an example. The relevant legislation (Finance Act 2013) defines a 'Statutory Residence Test'. It's complicated enough that HMRC (UK equivalent of IRS) created a booklet to help you understand how it applies in your own situation. That booklet is 105 pages long: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/rdr3-statutory-residence-test-srt https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/rdr3-statutory-re... Even if you spend only 3 days/week in the UK, it's possible to become tax resident there, and is more likely if you do it for 2 years in a row.
robjan 7y ago
A lot of digital nomads don't actually have the right to work in the country in which they are located
- A2017U1 7y ago
  And this gets far more messy the moment they come to the clients country and start working on a tourist visa.
- gesman 7y ago
  They have corps registered somewhere where you sign a contract with that corp that satisfy local regulations but the actual guy doing the job may be just sitting in the next local starbucks doing job technically illegally. You get 1/4-1/2 of ongoing local rate for the same quality. You be the judge of risk/reward ratio of course.
- stephenr 7y ago
  Ssshhhh. You're killing the good vibes man. Don't let pesky things like laws get in the way of a good time. Every time "digital nomad" comes up, there's an argument about "well that law is stupid, it deserves to be broken"... by foreigners breaking a law in some country they aren't a resident. I wonder how many would be happy to also see the US/EU/AU etc also flooded by foreigners who turn up, and work illegally for ridiculously more than the locals do, without paying local taxes?
linuxftw 7y ago
There's no opportunity IMO. Nobody wants to move to high COL place temporary for contract work. That is literal worst-case scenario unless you plan on paying for a year's worth of salary for those few months to justify the added expenses for the consultant. Don't be cheap. Hire a consulting firm that specializes in your area if you need on-site help. Or, if you want to be cheap, learn how to support remote work.
dyeje 7y ago
Digital nomads are digital nomads because they want a certain amount of freedom. I don't think many of them would be interested in your proposition if it requires them coming into your office. Perhaps reconsider your stance on remote, you might be surprised by the results.
chatmasta 7y ago
Have you considered incorporating in a digital nomad hot-spot country (Thailand comes to mind), renting an office in a co-working space there, and hiring multiple nomads into it at once? It would be nice if remote companies provided co-working office space for their employees / contractors. And at that point, you may as well hire two in the same place.
- stephenr 7y ago
  Sounds like a good way to get arrested, fined and/or jailed, deported and barred from re-entering the country. Edit: before someone complains "s/he said incorporated". Yeah, but are you really going to fuck around getting 4 local Thai staff for every "nomad" you want to sponsor for a business visa and work permit, only for them to fuck off 3 months later? It defeats the purpose. You may as well just hire local staff - you can pay them less than a foreigner and still be above local wages, no visas, no work permits (well except your own, which having local staff would help)
wprapido 7y ago
What's stack you're looking for and what problems are you trying to solve? I'm not in Munich, but I wouldn't mind spending a few months there and I'm available.
nolite 7y ago
What kind of job are you doing "requires people to work closely together in the same room on a regular basis" ? Geniunely curious
SerLava 7y ago
It sounds like you're going to have to figure out how to do remote.
araoul 7y ago
You can always hire people from outside E.U with a temporary work visa.
bayareanative 7y ago
"Butt-in-seat"-mentality is a big, artifical problem. Anywhere that practices it isn't worth dealing with.
somada141 7y ago
Have you had a look at https://nomadlist.com/ https://nomadlist.com/? I recall seeing something like chat groups by location. I’m sure a lot of the concerns other people raised re working rights and legal complexities are valid but it’s not fair to assume that no nomad would be willing to take a break and hang around Munich for a few months.
ahazred8ta 7y ago
[temporary help with a certain technology] Does this technology have a name? And can you explain why it's not reachable over a network?
janbernhart 7y ago
Not a marketplace, but LinkedIn should give you insights of freelancers in Munich easily. google (and and the tech key words you like) site:de.linkedin.com/in "munich area" freelance