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"A hypothetical Chinese transition to democracy would probably have followed the East Asian pattern, not the Eastern European one. In Eastern Europe, the Soviet

"A hypothetical Chinese transition to democracy would probably have followed the East Asian pattern, not the Eastern European one. In Eastern Europe, the Soviet Union didn't so much democratize as disintegrate. China might have started a transition to democracy in 1989, but it wasn’t on the verge of breaking up." China would have disintegrated like the Soviet Union ( or like the china of the 1800s after the opium war ) rather than democratized like South Korea. You can't compare an ethnically and linguistically united country like South Korea ( buttressed by the US ) with a large multiethnic nation like China. Especially considering foreign powers, especially britain, europe and the US, have a vested interest in destabilizing china. If china "democraticized" in 1989, we'd probably see a replay of post opium war china. A country that large and diverse, with a weakened central authority, would have been dismembered and picked apart, like in China in the 1800s and the Soviet Union/Russia in the 1990s. Looking at what the soviet union and russia in particular went through in the 90s to even today and what china went through in the 90s to today, I doubt any chinese citizen is upset at the crackdown. But it is an interesting "what if".

uranusjr 7y ago
> I doubt any chinese citizen is upset at the crackdown. Tibetans and Uygurs may beg the differ. — Or maybe you already discounted them from being Chinese? I’m fine with that definition too ;)
- basetop 7y ago
  I said china is a multi-ethnic nation unlike south korea, didn't I. I highly doubt tibetans or ugyhurs would celebrate going through 90s russian life. Tibet and Xinjiang ( and to a limited degree hong kong ) are interesting because europe in particular wants to use them to break china. And interestingly enough, the both tibet and xinjiang were invaded by foreign powers ( britain and soviet union ) in order to destabilize china. Both times, most tibetans and uyghurs sided with china. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_invasion_of_Xinjiang https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_invasion_of_Xinjiang https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_expedition_to_Tibet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_expedition_to_Tibet My point is that most people just care about their well being. As long as they are getting wealthier, they don't care. If china's economic situation worsens dramatically, then I suspect things might be different. But I doubt any chinese citizens of any ethnicity wants their family to experience 90s russia or 1800s china. Just like no one here wants to go through a great depression ( which was mild compared to what 90s russia and 1800s china experienced ).
  - 34r45sdg 7y ago
    The Uyghurs siding with China was before China started rounding them up and putting them in camps. The Uyghurs now live under the worst dystopian future humanity could envisage -- Checkpoints with phone scans, mandatory government spyware that scans for illicit content, deep facial recognition and social profiling EVERYWHERE. Its a different time, and a different China. I hope the Uyghur rise up and smash this. I wouldn't bet on it happening.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
NotPaidToPost 7y ago
> I doubt any chinese citizen is upset at the crackdown. Many Chinese were 'upset' at the 1989 crackdown... You cannot generalise feelings regarding (violent) political events.

uranusjr 7y ago

> I doubt any chinese citizen is upset at the crackdown. Tibetans and Uygurs may beg the differ. — Or maybe you already discounted them from being Chinese? I’m fine with that definition too ;)

basetop 7y ago
I said china is a multi-ethnic nation unlike south korea, didn't I. I highly doubt tibetans or ugyhurs would celebrate going through 90s russian life. Tibet and Xinjiang ( and to a limited degree hong kong ) are interesting because europe in particular wants to use them to break china. And interestingly enough, the both tibet and xinjiang were invaded by foreign powers ( britain and soviet union ) in order to destabilize china. Both times, most tibetans and uyghurs sided with china. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_invasion_of_Xinjiang https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_invasion_of_Xinjiang https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_expedition_to_Tibet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_expedition_to_Tibet My point is that most people just care about their well being. As long as they are getting wealthier, they don't care. If china's economic situation worsens dramatically, then I suspect things might be different. But I doubt any chinese citizens of any ethnicity wants their family to experience 90s russia or 1800s china. Just like no one here wants to go through a great depression ( which was mild compared to what 90s russia and 1800s china experienced ).
- 34r45sdg 7y ago
  The Uyghurs siding with China was before China started rounding them up and putting them in camps. The Uyghurs now live under the worst dystopian future humanity could envisage -- Checkpoints with phone scans, mandatory government spyware that scans for illicit content, deep facial recognition and social profiling EVERYWHERE. Its a different time, and a different China. I hope the Uyghur rise up and smash this. I wouldn't bet on it happening.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]

NotPaidToPost 7y ago

> I doubt any chinese citizen is upset at the crackdown. Many Chinese were 'upset' at the 1989 crackdown... You cannot generalise feelings regarding (violent) political events.