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The corporations have bought our governments and are destroying the environment for their short-term enrichment. The obvious positives of technology and capita

The corporations have bought our governments and are destroying the environment for their short-term enrichment. The obvious positives of technology and capitalism must be weighed against their long-term drawbacks. The unfettered capitalism the corporations have put into place via their lawyers and lobbyists has kept the negative outcomes from public view while shielding their owners from responsibility. Boeing, Tanaka, Monsanto, Exxon, Facebook, ... The system as it exists is far more destructive than constructive. Only a fool or a liar says otherwise. ETA: So, "Civilization Accelerating Extinction at Unprecedented Pace" is not caused by technology, corporations and unfettered capitalism? ETA2: And every civilization was created by the most ruthless? You only see yourself in everything you perceive, which is fundamental to ignorance.

malvosenior 7y ago
The long term survival of humanity absolutely depends on technology. Aside from the existential threats I listed, all medicine, electricity, clean water... all depend on technological advancement. I'll take Boeing and Facebook over plague, constant war and lack of rule of law any day of the week. I'm not sure which period in time you're glamorizing to be much better than today, but the vast majority of humans alive in 2019 have a better life than the humans that came before them.
- OneWordSoln 7y ago
  I didn't say any previous time period was better than today; I said that our societies being created by the most ruthless is absurd, and it is. Humans at their best work cooperatively and it happens all the time and has happened at all times. But when power structures can be subverted by the amoral, they will be, have been, are being. That does not mean that structures that facilitate such power grabs were created by the amoral. To suggest so is plainly illogical and ridiculous. We need to work in societies to prosper and survive, and cooperation is the best way to achieve that. Our failure is that, at larger scales, we have not applied the proper systems thinking to ensure that the ruthless and amoral cannot game the system for their own personal gain at the expense of the society and the Earth itself. Those with power will always promote competition because they have all the advantages; as well, they will denigrate cooperation because their excesses will be seen for the unnecessary drain on resources they are. Thus, we have the corporate lawyers and lobbyists making the laws and regulations that are supposed to rein them in.
  - malvosenior 7y ago
    Can you give an example of a society you’re describing? One with power structures not “subverted by the amoral”? One that produced the positive vision of cooperation at scale that you say existed? I can’t think of any.
    - OneWordSoln 7y ago
      We are currently at unprecedented scale, but it is illogical to think that society and the power structures inherent in them were devised solely by the amoral. How long have societies been too large to keep the amoral from corrupting them? I don't know but it seems to be thousands of years at this point. But that doesn't mean that individual communities throughout the ages haven't created compassion-based societies where the people they selected to make important decisions were actual public servants. Look at FDR's Four Freedoms and the various compassion-based programs he instituted. It does seem obvious that once a certain scale is achieved, humanity has failed to apply sufficient systems thinking to keep the amoral from subverting the system for their own gain and to the detriment of the whole. Part of the problem is that most people are just not that selfishly manipulative and, thus, have a difficult time anticipating the disasterous personalities, means and effects of the truly evil. I mean, look at all the literally poor (as in not wealthy) fools that support Trump and his obviously corrupt cadre of rich fucks. The fucker is about to roll back regulations that are designed to help prevent natural disasters from offshore oil drilling, and his tax cuts were an enormous boon for all for-profit corporations.
      - malvosenior 7y ago
        FDR seems like a very odd example of compassion based leadership. The US was literally killing millions of people under his watch and he setup the Manhattan project which culminated in dropping two atomic bombs. I won't even make a moral judgement on any of that, it just doesn't seem like an example of the a cooperative and peaceful society that you're talking about.
        OneWordSoln 7y ago
- crucialfelix 7y ago
  Humans will survive. There is far too much money to be made for the game to end. We will survive for centuries. It will get gorier and nastier, but we will stay alive at all costs. Animals ... not so lucky. The vast majority of living non-human mammals are livestock. They have never had it worse than they do today. Wild mammals are now a minority and they have certainly never had it worse. They are in the midst of the Sixth Extinction.
  - malvosenior 7y ago
    Hopefully we survive a lot longer than centuries! That's not very long. We should be pushing for space exportation of the human race if we're actually to survive at cosmic scales. > It will get gorier and nastier, but we will stay alive at all costs. By nearly every metric, humans are better off today than they ever have been in the past. Why do you think this trend will not only stop but reverse itself? Technology is a great boon to humanity and it keeps getting better. I think the welfare of non-domesticated mammals is an entirely different conversation to this one. I will say that evolution is always going to happen and there have been numerous mass extinction events in the past. Whether through astrological, geological or biological means, there will be black swans that greatly impact life on earth. Human culture is certainly among those.

malvosenior 7y ago

The long term survival of humanity absolutely depends on technology. Aside from the existential threats I listed, all medicine, electricity, clean water... all depend on technological advancement. I'll take Boeing and Facebook over plague, constant war and lack of rule of law any day of the week. I'm not sure which period in time you're glamorizing to be much better than today, but the vast majority of humans alive in 2019 have a better life than the humans that came before them.

OneWordSoln 7y ago
I didn't say any previous time period was better than today; I said that our societies being created by the most ruthless is absurd, and it is. Humans at their best work cooperatively and it happens all the time and has happened at all times. But when power structures can be subverted by the amoral, they will be, have been, are being. That does not mean that structures that facilitate such power grabs were created by the amoral. To suggest so is plainly illogical and ridiculous. We need to work in societies to prosper and survive, and cooperation is the best way to achieve that. Our failure is that, at larger scales, we have not applied the proper systems thinking to ensure that the ruthless and amoral cannot game the system for their own personal gain at the expense of the society and the Earth itself. Those with power will always promote competition because they have all the advantages; as well, they will denigrate cooperation because their excesses will be seen for the unnecessary drain on resources they are. Thus, we have the corporate lawyers and lobbyists making the laws and regulations that are supposed to rein them in.
- malvosenior 7y ago
  Can you give an example of a society you’re describing? One with power structures not “subverted by the amoral”? One that produced the positive vision of cooperation at scale that you say existed? I can’t think of any.
  - OneWordSoln 7y ago
    We are currently at unprecedented scale, but it is illogical to think that society and the power structures inherent in them were devised solely by the amoral. How long have societies been too large to keep the amoral from corrupting them? I don't know but it seems to be thousands of years at this point. But that doesn't mean that individual communities throughout the ages haven't created compassion-based societies where the people they selected to make important decisions were actual public servants. Look at FDR's Four Freedoms and the various compassion-based programs he instituted. It does seem obvious that once a certain scale is achieved, humanity has failed to apply sufficient systems thinking to keep the amoral from subverting the system for their own gain and to the detriment of the whole. Part of the problem is that most people are just not that selfishly manipulative and, thus, have a difficult time anticipating the disasterous personalities, means and effects of the truly evil. I mean, look at all the literally poor (as in not wealthy) fools that support Trump and his obviously corrupt cadre of rich fucks. The fucker is about to roll back regulations that are designed to help prevent natural disasters from offshore oil drilling, and his tax cuts were an enormous boon for all for-profit corporations.
    - malvosenior 7y ago
      FDR seems like a very odd example of compassion based leadership. The US was literally killing millions of people under his watch and he setup the Manhattan project which culminated in dropping two atomic bombs. I won't even make a moral judgement on any of that, it just doesn't seem like an example of the a cooperative and peaceful society that you're talking about.
      - OneWordSoln 7y ago
crucialfelix 7y ago
Humans will survive. There is far too much money to be made for the game to end. We will survive for centuries. It will get gorier and nastier, but we will stay alive at all costs. Animals ... not so lucky. The vast majority of living non-human mammals are livestock. They have never had it worse than they do today. Wild mammals are now a minority and they have certainly never had it worse. They are in the midst of the Sixth Extinction.
- malvosenior 7y ago
  Hopefully we survive a lot longer than centuries! That's not very long. We should be pushing for space exportation of the human race if we're actually to survive at cosmic scales. > It will get gorier and nastier, but we will stay alive at all costs. By nearly every metric, humans are better off today than they ever have been in the past. Why do you think this trend will not only stop but reverse itself? Technology is a great boon to humanity and it keeps getting better. I think the welfare of non-domesticated mammals is an entirely different conversation to this one. I will say that evolution is always going to happen and there have been numerous mass extinction events in the past. Whether through astrological, geological or biological means, there will be black swans that greatly impact life on earth. Human culture is certainly among those.