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open source maintainer here - I disagree that you get those "responsibility and emotions" only when you attach money. You already get plenty of those by the sh

by kelset 7y ago

open source maintainer here - I disagree that you get those "responsibility and emotions" only when you attach money. You already get plenty of those by the sheer fact that you care about the craft you contribute to. > Nobody would have ever imagined it to work without "money", but it does and it will continue to work. I'm sorry to break it for you, but it doesn't actually work. And constant articles and talks from OSS maintainers about burnout is one of the proofs. If you want to read more, there is a great book on this subject which I feel will help you get a more informed opinion on it: https://www.fordfoundation.org/about/library/reports-and-studies/roads-and-bridges-the-unseen-labor-behind-our-digital-infrastructure/ https://www.fordfoundation.org/about/library/reports-and-stu... Initiatives like this are important to "show by example" - currently there are too many Open Source consumers and not enough contributors. And also, work IS work - and it should be retributed.

sktrdie 7y ago
> I'm sorry to break it for you, but it doesn't actually work. Happy to disagree here. Personally it has been working amazingly since over the past, what, 30 years open-source has been the foundation of almost any tool or tech we use nowadays and it was done without economical incentives. Not sure where your data comes from. I agree about the burnout, but not sure adding money to the equation helps with this problem.
- kelset 7y ago
  > Not sure where your data comes from. I literally linked a 150 pages book with both data and examples in my previous comment.
  - sktrdie 7y ago
    Ah damn I'm sorry. Can you tell me where this data is in the book? I quickly brushed through the 217 page book and there seems to be no data regarding my comment where I think open-source doesn't need economical incentives in order to work.
    - nickpsecurity 7y ago
      I prefer to share this article that came before the book since it's a quicker read: https://medium.com/@nayafia/how-i-stumbled-upon-the-internet-s-biggest-blind-spot-b9aa23618c58 https://medium.com/@nayafia/how-i-stumbled-upon-the-internet...
- jsbaby608 7y ago
  You are correct. But, the biggest projects we all use (apache, linux, php, etc) all have many paid maintainers through large companies. If these people weren't paid, I don't think we would have any of the quality software we see today.
  - sktrdie 7y ago
    Apache Software Foundation is a non-profit 501(c)(3) corporation -- (basically a charity). It does not "make money" per se, it just has to cover its costs. Not sure about the rest but I believe most have the same model. Sure there are few nitpicks, but my overall point was that open-source doesn't need money to work.
    - antt 7y ago
      Expenses like paying their employees. I will never understand how so many people in tech think that not for profit means never make a profit, or pay anyone for their time. But somehow spending money on corporate funded machinery is fine. When a local maker space wasted thousands of dollars for a license of some cam software, but didn't want to pay a member $10 for cleaning up after everyone else (and keep them from being homeless) I had to seriously reconsider supporting a place that was so anti-people and pro corporation.
      - mhink 7y ago
        > I will never understand how so many people in tech think that not for profit means never make a profit, or pay anyone for their time. My dad used to be a test engineer for UL, and the way he always (wryly) put it was: “They might not be for profit, but they’re definitely for making money.”
    - sktrdie 7y ago
      @antt, no they don't pay the employess. In fact they don't have employees: "With no employees and 2663 volunteers, it spent $270,846 on infrastructure, $92,364 on public relations, and $17,891 on two ApacheCons." - from wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Apache_Software_Foundation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Apache_Software_Foundation ps: I'm getting downvoted for linking facts :D
- Arkanosis 7y ago
  > over the past, what, 30 years open-source has been the foundation of almost any tool or tech we use nowadays and it was done without economical incentives Not sure what you are talking about… Most big open-source projects I can think of have at least at some point been the result of economical incentives, either direct or indirect. Sure, there are significant exceptions, but we wouldn't be where we are today if open-source wasn't economically sound.

by kelset 7y ago

sktrdie 7y ago

> I'm sorry to break it for you, but it doesn't actually work. Happy to disagree here. Personally it has been working amazingly since over the past, what, 30 years open-source has been the foundation of almost any tool or tech we use nowadays and it was done without economical incentives. Not sure where your data comes from. I agree about the burnout, but not sure adding money to the equation helps with this problem.

kelset 7y ago
> Not sure where your data comes from. I literally linked a 150 pages book with both data and examples in my previous comment.
- sktrdie 7y ago
  Ah damn I'm sorry. Can you tell me where this data is in the book? I quickly brushed through the 217 page book and there seems to be no data regarding my comment where I think open-source doesn't need economical incentives in order to work.
  - nickpsecurity 7y ago
    I prefer to share this article that came before the book since it's a quicker read: https://medium.com/@nayafia/how-i-stumbled-upon-the-internet-s-biggest-blind-spot-b9aa23618c58 https://medium.com/@nayafia/how-i-stumbled-upon-the-internet...
jsbaby608 7y ago
You are correct. But, the biggest projects we all use (apache, linux, php, etc) all have many paid maintainers through large companies. If these people weren't paid, I don't think we would have any of the quality software we see today.
- sktrdie 7y ago
  Apache Software Foundation is a non-profit 501(c)(3) corporation -- (basically a charity). It does not "make money" per se, it just has to cover its costs. Not sure about the rest but I believe most have the same model. Sure there are few nitpicks, but my overall point was that open-source doesn't need money to work.
  - antt 7y ago
    Expenses like paying their employees. I will never understand how so many people in tech think that not for profit means never make a profit, or pay anyone for their time. But somehow spending money on corporate funded machinery is fine. When a local maker space wasted thousands of dollars for a license of some cam software, but didn't want to pay a member $10 for cleaning up after everyone else (and keep them from being homeless) I had to seriously reconsider supporting a place that was so anti-people and pro corporation.
    - mhink 7y ago
      > I will never understand how so many people in tech think that not for profit means never make a profit, or pay anyone for their time. My dad used to be a test engineer for UL, and the way he always (wryly) put it was: “They might not be for profit, but they’re definitely for making money.”
  - sktrdie 7y ago
    @antt, no they don't pay the employess. In fact they don't have employees: "With no employees and 2663 volunteers, it spent $270,846 on infrastructure, $92,364 on public relations, and $17,891 on two ApacheCons." - from wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Apache_Software_Foundation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Apache_Software_Foundation ps: I'm getting downvoted for linking facts :D
Arkanosis 7y ago
> over the past, what, 30 years open-source has been the foundation of almost any tool or tech we use nowadays and it was done without economical incentives Not sure what you are talking about… Most big open-source projects I can think of have at least at some point been the result of economical incentives, either direct or indirect. Sure, there are significant exceptions, but we wouldn't be where we are today if open-source wasn't economically sound.