9 ms·

This makes me think of this Reddit meme I saw in the Gaming section, the gist of it: if you mentioned some specific chinese massacre in a game with chinese play

This makes me think of this Reddit meme I saw in the Gaming section, the gist of it: if you mentioned some specific chinese massacre in a game with chinese players, they would all leave the game.

_iyig 7y ago
There is a large copy-paste block with English and Chinese spellings of “Tibet, Xinjiang Autonomous Region, Tiananmen Square Massacre 1989” that also frequently gets posted on sites like 4chan and YouTube to ward off Chinese commenters. I imagine it’s not very effective, however, since these sites are blocked on the Chinese Internet, so any Chinese users would by default be posting via an encrypted VPN.
- colanderman 7y ago
  That's… one of the more interesting things I've read today.
  - dang 7y ago
    The parent referred to "Chinese commenters" (and "ward off" was bad enough), but your comment seems to imply that they're all "CCP astroturfers". That's against the site guidelines. Would you mind reviewing them? https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Obviously there are real issues to be discussed here, but to do so well means we have to get good at not doing things that kill real discussion, and denigrating large groups en masse is one.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - kkarakk 7y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_Cent_Party https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_Cent_Party Wu Mao Dang is common enough and well known enough that it has a wikipedia page(a very thoroughly edited and referenced one)...it IS real discussion.
      - dang 7y ago
        That is extremely well known—so much so that people rush to repeat it on every relevant, and many an irrelevant, occasion. Please see my reply at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19821356 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19821356. The issue here was conflating all Chinese commenters with CCP astroturfers and representing them as vampires who need to be "warded off". It's great that you're concerned with discussion integrity on HN—so are we, very much—but please take care that garden-variety prejudice doesn't leach into this. That happens so easily as to be a bigger problem than the astroturfing people complain about, which they frequently imagine to be happening based on zero evidence. I've written about this a great deal if anyone wants more: https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comment&storyText=false&prefix=false&page=0&query=by:dang%20astroturfing https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme...
    - _iyig 7y ago
      I don’t know what the comment to which you’ve replied said originally, but it’s true that China pays thousands of people to astroturf comments on the Internet. This fact has been established by the international press and also by the Chinese government. Furthermore, people in China aren’t stupid, and many are aware of this phenomenon as it is quite prevalent on the domestic Chinese Internet (Weibo, WeChat, etc). Are all positive comments about China made by the “wumao army?” Of course not. Are many such comments astroturfed (Edit for clarification: speaking of the broader Internet)? Absolutely. Would it be racist to point out the existence of the large and well-funded groups paid to make such comments? I don’t think so. Obviously, this isn’t a cudgel to be used against any pro-Chinese government comment or argument. “Wumao” is often employed as a slur. But it is 100% a real phenomenon. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7783640.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7783640.stm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_Cent_Party https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_Cent_Party https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Water_Army https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Water_Army https://youtu.be/yCnnPf2OnHo https://youtu.be/yCnnPf2OnHo
      - dang 7y ago
        Everyone knows that's a real phenomenon. The issue I was addressing was people's tendency, unfortunately very common, to conflate every Chinese commenter, indeed anyone advocating a Chinese perspective, with CCP astroturfers. That's a serious problem on HN. (I don't think it was colanderman's intention to do this and I'm sure that's why he edited his comment after I replied to it.) The temptation is strong, when encountering views one dislikes, to regard the person expressing them as disingenuous and pushing some sinister agenda. This is why the site guidelines explicitly say "Please don't impute astroturfing or shillage. That degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. If you're worried, email us and we'll look at the data." As geopolitics between China and the West heat up for reasons totally beyond this site, users here need to remember that HN is an international community where all are welcome. Being welcome, among other things, means not being slurred because of your national origin, language, race, and so on. It's nice that HN feels like a small and intimate place, but it's not a living room—when you post here, you're broadcasting to an audience of millions. Many come from very different backgrounds than you or I or any of us does, and they have just as much a right to be here as you and I and any of us does. The image of "warding off Chinese commenters", which you invoked in your comment upthread, is dismaying and exactly what we don't want here. People need to listen to each other more, not less, when there is distance between them. I don't want to be part of any site that works against that. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- _iyig 7y ago
  For the curious, here is a Reddit post with the copy-paste text and more context: https://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/b3im9t/whats_up_with_people_talking_about_tiananmen/ https://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/b3im9t/whats_...
saagarjha 7y ago
动态网自由门天安門天安门法輪功李洪志 Free Tibet 六四天安門事件 The Tiananmen Square protests of 1989 天安門大屠殺 The Tiananmen Square Massacre 反右派鬥爭 The Anti-Rightist Struggle 大躍進政策 The Great Leap Forward 文化大革命 The Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution 人權 Human Rights 民運 Democratization 自由 Freedom 獨立 Independence 多黨制 Multi-party system 台灣臺灣 Taiwan Formosa 中華民國 Republic of China 西藏土伯特唐古特 Tibet 達賴喇嘛 Dalai Lama 法輪功 Falun Dafa 新疆維吾爾自治區 The Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region 諾貝爾和平獎 Nobel Peace Prize 劉暁波 Liu Xiaobo 民主言論思想反共反革命抗議運動騷亂暴亂騷擾擾亂抗暴平反維權示威游行李洪志法輪大法大法弟子強制斷種強制堕胎民族淨化人體實驗肅清胡耀邦趙紫陽魏京生王丹還政於民和平演變激流中國北京之春大紀元時報九評論共産黨獨裁專制壓制統一監視鎮壓迫害侵略掠奪破壞拷問屠殺活摘器官誘拐買賣人口遊進走私毒品賣淫春畫賭博六合彩天安門天安门法輪功李洪志 Winnie the Pooh 劉曉波动态网自由门 For those wondering.
- tsjq 7y ago
  that's interesting. no Winnie the Pooh ?
  - saagarjha 7y ago
    It's at the end?
atemerev 7y ago
This kind of solves PUBG cheating problem, thank you! Will try next time.

This makes me think of this Reddit meme I saw in the Gaming section, the gist of it: if you mentioned some specific chinese massacre in a game with chinese players, they would all leave the game.

_iyig 7y ago

There is a large copy-paste block with English and Chinese spellings of “Tibet, Xinjiang Autonomous Region, Tiananmen Square Massacre 1989” that also frequently gets posted on sites like 4chan and YouTube to ward off Chinese commenters. I imagine it’s not very effective, however, since these sites are blocked on the Chinese Internet, so any Chinese users would by default be posting via an encrypted VPN.

colanderman 7y ago
That's… one of the more interesting things I've read today.
- dang 7y ago
  The parent referred to "Chinese commenters" (and "ward off" was bad enough), but your comment seems to imply that they're all "CCP astroturfers". That's against the site guidelines. Would you mind reviewing them? https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Obviously there are real issues to be discussed here, but to do so well means we have to get good at not doing things that kill real discussion, and denigrating large groups en masse is one.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - kkarakk 7y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_Cent_Party https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_Cent_Party Wu Mao Dang is common enough and well known enough that it has a wikipedia page(a very thoroughly edited and referenced one)...it IS real discussion.
    - dang 7y ago
      That is extremely well known—so much so that people rush to repeat it on every relevant, and many an irrelevant, occasion. Please see my reply at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19821356 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19821356. The issue here was conflating all Chinese commenters with CCP astroturfers and representing them as vampires who need to be "warded off". It's great that you're concerned with discussion integrity on HN—so are we, very much—but please take care that garden-variety prejudice doesn't leach into this. That happens so easily as to be a bigger problem than the astroturfing people complain about, which they frequently imagine to be happening based on zero evidence. I've written about this a great deal if anyone wants more: https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comment&storyText=false&prefix=false&page=0&query=by:dang%20astroturfing https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme...
  - _iyig 7y ago
    I don’t know what the comment to which you’ve replied said originally, but it’s true that China pays thousands of people to astroturf comments on the Internet. This fact has been established by the international press and also by the Chinese government. Furthermore, people in China aren’t stupid, and many are aware of this phenomenon as it is quite prevalent on the domestic Chinese Internet (Weibo, WeChat, etc). Are all positive comments about China made by the “wumao army?” Of course not. Are many such comments astroturfed (Edit for clarification: speaking of the broader Internet)? Absolutely. Would it be racist to point out the existence of the large and well-funded groups paid to make such comments? I don’t think so. Obviously, this isn’t a cudgel to be used against any pro-Chinese government comment or argument. “Wumao” is often employed as a slur. But it is 100% a real phenomenon. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7783640.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7783640.stm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_Cent_Party https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_Cent_Party https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Water_Army https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Water_Army https://youtu.be/yCnnPf2OnHo https://youtu.be/yCnnPf2OnHo
    - dang 7y ago
      Everyone knows that's a real phenomenon. The issue I was addressing was people's tendency, unfortunately very common, to conflate every Chinese commenter, indeed anyone advocating a Chinese perspective, with CCP astroturfers. That's a serious problem on HN. (I don't think it was colanderman's intention to do this and I'm sure that's why he edited his comment after I replied to it.) The temptation is strong, when encountering views one dislikes, to regard the person expressing them as disingenuous and pushing some sinister agenda. This is why the site guidelines explicitly say "Please don't impute astroturfing or shillage. That degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. If you're worried, email us and we'll look at the data." As geopolitics between China and the West heat up for reasons totally beyond this site, users here need to remember that HN is an international community where all are welcome. Being welcome, among other things, means not being slurred because of your national origin, language, race, and so on. It's nice that HN feels like a small and intimate place, but it's not a living room—when you post here, you're broadcasting to an audience of millions. Many come from very different backgrounds than you or I or any of us does, and they have just as much a right to be here as you and I and any of us does. The image of "warding off Chinese commenters", which you invoked in your comment upthread, is dismaying and exactly what we don't want here. People need to listen to each other more, not less, when there is distance between them. I don't want to be part of any site that works against that. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
_iyig 7y ago
For the curious, here is a Reddit post with the copy-paste text and more context: https://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/b3im9t/whats_up_with_people_talking_about_tiananmen/ https://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/b3im9t/whats_...

saagarjha 7y ago

动态网自由门天安門天安门法輪功李洪志 Free Tibet 六四天安門事件 The Tiananmen Square protests of 1989 天安門大屠殺 The Tiananmen Square Massacre 反右派鬥爭 The Anti-Rightist Struggle 大躍進政策 The Great Leap Forward 文化大革命 The Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution 人權 Human Rights 民運 Democratization 自由 Freedom 獨立 Independence 多黨制 Multi-party system 台灣臺灣 Taiwan Formosa 中華民國 Republic of China 西藏土伯特唐古特 Tibet 達賴喇嘛 Dalai Lama 法輪功 Falun Dafa 新疆維吾爾自治區 The Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region 諾貝爾和平獎 Nobel Peace Prize 劉暁波 Liu Xiaobo 民主言論思想反共反革命抗議運動騷亂暴亂騷擾擾亂抗暴平反維權示威游行李洪志法輪大法大法弟子強制斷種強制堕胎民族淨化人體實驗肅清胡耀邦趙紫陽魏京生王丹還政於民和平演變激流中國北京之春大紀元時報九評論共産黨獨裁專制壓制統一監視鎮壓迫害侵略掠奪破壞拷問屠殺活摘器官誘拐買賣人口遊進走私毒品賣淫春畫賭博六合彩天安門天安门法輪功李洪志 Winnie the Pooh 劉曉波动态网自由门 For those wondering.

tsjq 7y ago
that's interesting. no Winnie the Pooh ?
- saagarjha 7y ago
  It's at the end?

atemerev 7y ago

This kind of solves PUBG cheating problem, thank you! Will try next time.