7 ms·

That QZ article gets a lot wrong. In particular: > if the tech bubble bursts, computer science may even be riskier than a humanities degree, which gives gradua

by notbob 7y ago

That QZ article gets a lot wrong. In particular: > if the tech bubble bursts, computer science may even be riskier than a humanities degree, which gives graduates a broader set of knowledge. How do humanities degrees provide "broader knowledge" than CS degrees? Different, sure, but broader? Good CS degrees are not coding bootcamps. CS students take a lot of mathematics and logic-heavy courses and can easily pivot from programming to jobs in insurance, finance, accounting, education, project management, and even law. Good CS degrees also require a lot of technical writing, which opens up all of the stuff that's usually associated with humanities degrees. Bad CS degrees exist. But then, so do bad English departments. This also ignores the fact that a lot of CS students are taking courses in English/poli sci/History/etc, but very few humanities students are taking CS courses. E.g., I didn't have a major or minor in any of the above fields, but I took upper-division courses in the English, Relgiion, poli sci, and history departments. However, I only ever encountered one non-STEM major in CS courses beyond CS 101.

geebee 7y ago
That's a very important observation. It's been almost 20 years since I was an undergraduate, but at the time (I went to UCSD), general college requirements were overwhelmingly tilted toward the humanities. Specific requirements varied on which particular college you attended, but often required a 2 lower division survey of world history and cultures, 2 years of a foreign language, and 1-2 courses in performing arts. Often considerable upper division work in a branch of the humanities was required as well (for instance, an upper division series in literature or history). Science requirements were much lighter, and could often be fulfilled without taking calculus (non-calc based stats or symbolic logic for math, non-calc based physics, that sort of thing). I don't really understand why people act like humanities majors are "well rounded" compared to science or engineering majors - it seems like the absolute opposite. To confirm this, just pick a respectable college and read the degree requirements for students in different majors (I don't mean elite colleges, there are hundreds of colleges that meet this standard).
- tomjakubowski 7y ago
  Gen-ed humanities courses taught to giant lecture halls aren't quite the same as the much smaller courses the majors take. You are extremely likely to be put on the spot and made to defend a subjective position you've taken. They're tough and require you have tons of knowledge at hand to succeed in them. In math, and to some extent engineering or science, you can often reason your way through if you get stuck, or at worse there are often simple procedures you can rote memorize. I do agree that non-STEM degrees should have stronger math requirements. But K-12 math education in the US is such a disaster that the universities wouldn't stand a chance if they wanted to do it.
  - notbob 7y ago
    > Gen-ed humanities courses taught to giant lecture halls aren't quite the same as the much smaller courses the majors take This depends on the type of institution. Liberal arts and most honors colleges at large universities have small class sizes with high-quality instruction for their gen-ed humanities. > You are extremely likely to be put on the spot and made to defend a subjective position you've taken. This is also true in (good) mathematics and computer science programs, where you'll need to learn how to communicate well to technical audiences and defend all manner of subjective positions. Also, something similar is true for the transferability of humanities skills! The writing skills you develop in humanities courses do not directly transfer to technical writing. Learning to write well for any audience will teach you a lot about good writing, but your random English major will probably be completely useless when it comes to writing proofs, design/requirements documents, technical documentation, or especially useful comments in their code. And if I had a dollar for ever business person with a humanities background who made an ass out of themselves in a technical meeting because they have no idea how to communicate with a technical audience about a technical subject... ;-) > In math, and to some extent engineering or science, you can often reason your way through if you get stuck, or else there are simple procedures you can rote memorize. I disagree. Your observation about lower vs. upper division courses is as true for STEM as it is for humanities courses. There's a lot of subjectivity/taste involved in upper-division courses, especially any proof-based or project-based course! > But K-12 math education in the US is such a disaster that the universities wouldn't stand a chance if they wanted to do it. That's a big problem. It's also a chicken-and-egg problem. Our elementary and middle school teachers are often innumerate, which makes it hard to prepare students for HS (where the quality is often still bad despite subject-area qualifications), which in turn creates problems for gen ed STEM at universities.
faissaloo 7y ago
I less concerned about the tech bubble bursting in and of itself. My concern is that it seems like tech is the last thing people can do to earn themselves a decent living nowadays, if that bubble bursts where does it leave us?
- sizzle 7y ago
  If you can create software/services to solve problems that humans will pay money for then you are in a unique position with leverage. I'd be more worried about AI/ML making developer's skill sets redundant. Thoughts?
  - faissaloo 7y ago
    Being able to form a useful business isn't nearly as accessible as something like programming, if we get to that point it feels like only the privileged will be going anywhere.

by notbob 7y ago

geebee 7y ago

That's a very important observation. It's been almost 20 years since I was an undergraduate, but at the time (I went to UCSD), general college requirements were overwhelmingly tilted toward the humanities. Specific requirements varied on which particular college you attended, but often required a 2 lower division survey of world history and cultures, 2 years of a foreign language, and 1-2 courses in performing arts. Often considerable upper division work in a branch of the humanities was required as well (for instance, an upper division series in literature or history). Science requirements were much lighter, and could often be fulfilled without taking calculus (non-calc based stats or symbolic logic for math, non-calc based physics, that sort of thing). I don't really understand why people act like humanities majors are "well rounded" compared to science or engineering majors - it seems like the absolute opposite. To confirm this, just pick a respectable college and read the degree requirements for students in different majors (I don't mean elite colleges, there are hundreds of colleges that meet this standard).

tomjakubowski 7y ago
Gen-ed humanities courses taught to giant lecture halls aren't quite the same as the much smaller courses the majors take. You are extremely likely to be put on the spot and made to defend a subjective position you've taken. They're tough and require you have tons of knowledge at hand to succeed in them. In math, and to some extent engineering or science, you can often reason your way through if you get stuck, or at worse there are often simple procedures you can rote memorize. I do agree that non-STEM degrees should have stronger math requirements. But K-12 math education in the US is such a disaster that the universities wouldn't stand a chance if they wanted to do it.
- notbob 7y ago
  > Gen-ed humanities courses taught to giant lecture halls aren't quite the same as the much smaller courses the majors take This depends on the type of institution. Liberal arts and most honors colleges at large universities have small class sizes with high-quality instruction for their gen-ed humanities. > You are extremely likely to be put on the spot and made to defend a subjective position you've taken. This is also true in (good) mathematics and computer science programs, where you'll need to learn how to communicate well to technical audiences and defend all manner of subjective positions. Also, something similar is true for the transferability of humanities skills! The writing skills you develop in humanities courses do not directly transfer to technical writing. Learning to write well for any audience will teach you a lot about good writing, but your random English major will probably be completely useless when it comes to writing proofs, design/requirements documents, technical documentation, or especially useful comments in their code. And if I had a dollar for ever business person with a humanities background who made an ass out of themselves in a technical meeting because they have no idea how to communicate with a technical audience about a technical subject... ;-) > In math, and to some extent engineering or science, you can often reason your way through if you get stuck, or else there are simple procedures you can rote memorize. I disagree. Your observation about lower vs. upper division courses is as true for STEM as it is for humanities courses. There's a lot of subjectivity/taste involved in upper-division courses, especially any proof-based or project-based course! > But K-12 math education in the US is such a disaster that the universities wouldn't stand a chance if they wanted to do it. That's a big problem. It's also a chicken-and-egg problem. Our elementary and middle school teachers are often innumerate, which makes it hard to prepare students for HS (where the quality is often still bad despite subject-area qualifications), which in turn creates problems for gen ed STEM at universities.

faissaloo 7y ago

I less concerned about the tech bubble bursting in and of itself. My concern is that it seems like tech is the last thing people can do to earn themselves a decent living nowadays, if that bubble bursts where does it leave us?

sizzle 7y ago
If you can create software/services to solve problems that humans will pay money for then you are in a unique position with leverage. I'd be more worried about AI/ML making developer's skill sets redundant. Thoughts?
- faissaloo 7y ago
  Being able to form a useful business isn't nearly as accessible as something like programming, if we get to that point it feels like only the privileged will be going anywhere.