6 ms·

Did anybody tried to apply blackseed and garlic light deep - fried coconut oil concoction? Just curious, sharing as it is our sub tropical Assam-Burma jungle t

Did anybody tried to apply blackseed and garlic light deep - fried coconut oil concoction? Just curious, sharing as it is our sub tropical Assam-Burma jungle traditional remedy for anything and everything fungal infection since time immemorial. Regards to all.

avn2109 7y ago
Can you elaborate on what you mean by "blackseed and garlic light deep - fried coconut oil concoction?"
- iDon 7y ago
  Not OP, but I found various info about the values of Nigella as a herbal remedy, e.g. with garlic https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4687760/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4687760/ When I read "black seed" in the comment I guessed it might be Nigella seeds, which are sprinkled atop pides in the local middle-eastern bakeries, adding a lovely piquancy to the bread.
dekhn 7y ago
It is very unlikely that western doctors in a major hospital would use a traditional jungle remedy that has limited clinical support. I did a quick skim and the clinical support isn't very good. (none of this is to say it's not effective, just that it's unlikely western doctors would do this based on current clinical evidence)
- darkerside 7y ago
  The tautological limitations of our medical system frustrate me. Things aren't attempted because they lack clinical evidence, and they lack clinical evidence because they are not attempted. I know that sounds like I don't understand that this is simply how medical science works; in fact, I do. It's the cost of improving our certainty as new therapies are adopted. But, it's frustrating.
  - justinjlynn 7y ago
    Frustrating, yes, but ethical. Unproven treatments aren't tried in day to day clinical settings - they are tried in trials or, maybe, with extreme reluctance and caution - and the supervision of an ethical board and, maybe, with the supervision of the local governmental medical authority.
    - cjbprime 7y ago
      You're a little quick to call things ethical -- in this article's case, the patient's doctors established that she had a fungal infection that was resistant to the treatments they had tried, then told her she would die soon and to prepare for it. What would be unethical about instead offering an experimental antifungal treatment that had not been clinically tested or verified? When you have a fast-acting terminal disease and are capable of participating in informed consent, seriously, what's the worst that can happen?
  - dekhn 7y ago
    It's more complicated than that, but yes, the current state of medical research on humans is really far worse than it could be. Note than many of the barriers are political. For example, we want to use clinical date from the EU, but the GDPR law makes working with the data extremely challenging. Previously, I worked with GA4GH which is trying to get consent forms changed to allow more aggregation of clinical data to be re-used outside of the original trial (metastudies on millions of patients) but it hasn't really gained a lot of adoption. Other barriers are financial- there are a lot of incumbents who make a lot of money without making the system significantly better (I think of the major EHR companies here, especially Epic, but many drug makers and medical device makers fall in this category too). Even within the reasonable constraints on ethics, the field could do tremendously better but there is no political will to make it so.
bluejekyll 7y ago
Here's the best article I found supporting at least the garlic as a natural and viable cure: https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/06/remedies-garlic-for-athletes-foot/ https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/06/remedies-garlic-fo... ---- “Garlic has long been considered a powerful natural antifungal,” said Dr. Lawrence D. Rosen, chief of pediatric integrative medicine at Hackensack University Medical Center in New Jersey and a pediatrician at the Whole Child Center in nearby Oradell. Dr. Rosen pointed out that studies have found garlic effective against a number of fungal infections, including those caused by Candida and other common pathogens. ---- Here's the supporting study: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12174037?itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum&ordinalpos=1 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12174037?itool=EntrezSys... And conclusion: "Fresh garlic extract has a greater efficacy than garlic powder extract as indicated both by its effects on morphology and inhibition of growth."
Raphmedia 7y ago
The issue is that the fungus has entered their bloodstream.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- hexane360 7y ago
  Seems to me like this problem: https://xkcd.com/1217/ https://xkcd.com/1217/
DoreenMichele 7y ago
I would personally be very interested in any resources you could link to with a recipe or similar. It likely was not used in this case. A doctor friend of mine once told me that American doctors try to err on the side of doing things they could defend in court if sued for malpractice. Remedies of this sort probably fail to meet that standard. I do personally know someone who served as "patient zero" in a clinical trial years ago trying to marry Western cancer treatments to non drug approaches, like diet. They lived when they should have really died. But I haven't heard of anything further coming of that initial study.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]

avn2109 7y ago

Can you elaborate on what you mean by "blackseed and garlic light deep - fried coconut oil concoction?"

iDon 7y ago
Not OP, but I found various info about the values of Nigella as a herbal remedy, e.g. with garlic https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4687760/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4687760/ When I read "black seed" in the comment I guessed it might be Nigella seeds, which are sprinkled atop pides in the local middle-eastern bakeries, adding a lovely piquancy to the bread.

dekhn 7y ago

It is very unlikely that western doctors in a major hospital would use a traditional jungle remedy that has limited clinical support. I did a quick skim and the clinical support isn't very good. (none of this is to say it's not effective, just that it's unlikely western doctors would do this based on current clinical evidence)

darkerside 7y ago
The tautological limitations of our medical system frustrate me. Things aren't attempted because they lack clinical evidence, and they lack clinical evidence because they are not attempted. I know that sounds like I don't understand that this is simply how medical science works; in fact, I do. It's the cost of improving our certainty as new therapies are adopted. But, it's frustrating.
- justinjlynn 7y ago
  Frustrating, yes, but ethical. Unproven treatments aren't tried in day to day clinical settings - they are tried in trials or, maybe, with extreme reluctance and caution - and the supervision of an ethical board and, maybe, with the supervision of the local governmental medical authority.
  - cjbprime 7y ago
    You're a little quick to call things ethical -- in this article's case, the patient's doctors established that she had a fungal infection that was resistant to the treatments they had tried, then told her she would die soon and to prepare for it. What would be unethical about instead offering an experimental antifungal treatment that had not been clinically tested or verified? When you have a fast-acting terminal disease and are capable of participating in informed consent, seriously, what's the worst that can happen?
- dekhn 7y ago
  It's more complicated than that, but yes, the current state of medical research on humans is really far worse than it could be. Note than many of the barriers are political. For example, we want to use clinical date from the EU, but the GDPR law makes working with the data extremely challenging. Previously, I worked with GA4GH which is trying to get consent forms changed to allow more aggregation of clinical data to be re-used outside of the original trial (metastudies on millions of patients) but it hasn't really gained a lot of adoption. Other barriers are financial- there are a lot of incumbents who make a lot of money without making the system significantly better (I think of the major EHR companies here, especially Epic, but many drug makers and medical device makers fall in this category too). Even within the reasonable constraints on ethics, the field could do tremendously better but there is no political will to make it so.

bluejekyll 7y ago

Here's the best article I found supporting at least the garlic as a natural and viable cure: https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/06/remedies-garlic-for-athletes-foot/ https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/06/remedies-garlic-fo... ---- “Garlic has long been considered a powerful natural antifungal,” said Dr. Lawrence D. Rosen, chief of pediatric integrative medicine at Hackensack University Medical Center in New Jersey and a pediatrician at the Whole Child Center in nearby Oradell. Dr. Rosen pointed out that studies have found garlic effective against a number of fungal infections, including those caused by Candida and other common pathogens. ---- Here's the supporting study: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12174037?itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum&ordinalpos=1 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12174037?itool=EntrezSys... And conclusion: "Fresh garlic extract has a greater efficacy than garlic powder extract as indicated both by its effects on morphology and inhibition of growth."

Raphmedia 7y ago

The issue is that the fungus has entered their bloodstream.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
hexane360 7y ago
Seems to me like this problem: https://xkcd.com/1217/ https://xkcd.com/1217/

DoreenMichele 7y ago

I would personally be very interested in any resources you could link to with a recipe or similar. It likely was not used in this case. A doctor friend of mine once told me that American doctors try to err on the side of doing things they could defend in court if sued for malpractice. Remedies of this sort probably fail to meet that standard. I do personally know someone who served as "patient zero" in a clinical trial years ago trying to marry Western cancer treatments to non drug approaches, like diet. They lived when they should have really died. But I haven't heard of anything further coming of that initial study.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]