7 ms·

What is a "3D audio"?

bsagdiyev 7y ago
Disclaimer: I am an SIE employee, but this is my opinion and how I understand it from the article description. It may not be correct. It sounds like this will be similar to the way some other sound card manufacturers have created "3d audio" in that you won't need something like a 7.1 system to be able to better portray where exactly a sound is coming from. Stereo headphones will be able to give you a more immersive feeling by having audio be more directional instead of a general area (i.e. left speaker or right speaker).
- jamescostian 7y ago
  I've always wondered, which is better: a 7.1 system or stereo headphones with "3d audio"? And if 3d audio is so great, why doesn't everyone just use stereo speakers (maybe with a subwoofer)?
  - bsagdiyev 7y ago
    I can't really give an answer to that one. I haven't gamed with a 7.1 system and generally just wear headphones when I do. I'm sure some people do use stereo speakers, but headphones are almost a given for professional gaming since it shuts out environmental noise to hear quiet noises in game. Paired with 3d audio it would probably just give better situational awareness. As to how well it will work, I can't answer that.
  - jvolkman 7y ago
    Listen to some binaural audio samples with headphones. You can't get that effect with stereo speakers since they're too far away from your ears. https://youtu.be/aQH-jwE_kfo https://youtu.be/aQH-jwE_kfo
    - justinclift 7y ago
      This doesn't make sense to me. I've used 7.1 and 5.1 systems that have very good stereo imaging, and being able to place sounds clearly on one side or the other like that... didn't seem unusual.
  - Dylan16807 7y ago
    To do it properly I think it does need to be headphones, and they should track your head orientation too. Speakers are much less fussy and a lot nicer in a theater setup, but without feeding directly into your ears you need to actually surround yourself with audio sources (possibly bouncing some with a sound bar).
  - jdietrich 7y ago
    > I've always wondered, which is better: a 7.1 system or stereo headphones with "3d audio"? Stereo headphones all the way. You only have two ears; they can only ascertain direction based on a) the amplitude and phase differences between the sound reaching each ear and b) the frequency and time-domain filtering effects of your outer ear. These effects can be very accurately emulated using a physical head model or digital signal processing. Properly recorded and mixed binaural audio will provide the most convincing spatial effect, because your eardrums can't tell the difference between a binaural recording and actually being in an acoustic environment. >And if 3d audio is so great, why doesn't everyone just use stereo speakers (maybe with a subwoofer)? Your living room isn't an anechoic chamber, so you're hearing both the sound of your speakers and the reverberation of your room. You can tell that you're listening to two sound sources positioned in front of you, because that room reverberation provides substantial spatial information about your actual acoustic environment and degrades the spatial information of the recording. You can mount speakers really close to your ears, so you only hear the sound of each speaker with one ear without the colouring effect of your listening environment; we call such an arrangement "headphones".
    - justinclift 7y ago
      > Stereo headphones all the way. I've done both, and (for me) it's the opposite. You're probably right for "accuracy of sound", but when gaming having a bunch of powerful speakers making sound effects gives a better "experience". :) eg You can feel decent sized speakers with your whole body, which you're missing when using just headphones
      - jdietrich 7y ago
        >I've done both, and (for me) it's the opposite. Headphones provide a worse spatial experience than stereo speakers where the source material has been mixed for speakers; the equation becomes significantly different with flexible spatial formats like Dolby Atmos. >You can feel decent sized speakers with your whole body Using headphones with a subwoofer is a workable (albeit highly antisocial) option. You can't feel frequencies above about 150Hz, which is comfortably within the bandwidth of most headphones. You can also fit a low-frequency transducer to your chair, which will provide a similar feel to a powerful subwoofer without annoying the neighbours. https://soundshaker.com/ https://soundshaker.com/ Speakers are undoubtedly more convenient and more practical for shared listening, but headphones provide a simply unmatched price-to-performance ratio; to get the best out of a pair of speakers, you need to spend at least as much on acoustic treatment to control the resonance of your listening environment.
  - justinclift 7y ago
    I've gamed with 7.1 systems (with good speakers - JBL Pro LSR 305 studio monitors), and with decent headphones. Headphones are much better than cheapo speaker setups, but a good 7.1 (or even 5.1) system gives a better experience. I'd probably put it down to being able to feel the noise with your whole body :) with good speakers, rather than the ears-only noise from headphones.
  - falcolas 7y ago
    7.1 for positional audio. Your ears are sensitive to the direction of sound in more than just left and right. They can also determine front from back, and up/down (for sounds in front of a person). Headphones simply can't mirror that effect, and you can tell this by simply turning your head while wearing them. If the soundscape doesn't change, it's not going to be accurate in terms of position.
  - jplayer01 7y ago
    Given the choice, I'd always pick the 7.1 system. I've been forced into playing primarily headphones because of where I live, but it pales in comparison with my old 7.1 setup. There's just something about the whole room being filled with sounds and vibration that you feel with your whole body that can't be replicated by headphones. If I ever get to live in a house again, first thing I buy is a good 5.1 or 7.1 system.
    - theandrewbailey 7y ago
      I just bought a house. Before turning on my PC (or even plugging it in), I set up my 7.1 system, including mounting most speakers to the living room walls. I swear that it sounds better than it did similarly set up at the old place (and that's not "it's better because I own it" sentimental BS).
      - jplayer01 7y ago
        I believe it. There are a lot of small environmental details that make a big difference to sound quality and how sound bounces around a room. Wall/floor material, distance between the speakers or to the listener, distance from the walls, ceiling height, etc. It's the kind of thing people will spend tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars to get just right.
snvzz 7y ago
I believe they're refering to binaural recordings and synthetised 3d audio effects[1]. Specifically, it's likely about the inclusion and use of TrueAudio[2], its current encarnation (TrueAudio Next) or a successor of that. On my own experience with Sennheiser HD600 headphones, these effects can sound real to the point of tricking my mind. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binaural_recording https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binaural_recording [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3D_audio_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3D_audio_effect [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMD_TrueAudio https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMD_TrueAudio
- corysama 7y ago
  Use https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambisonics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambisonics for internal processing then output as binaural stereo. 3D audio! External speakers can approximate binaural audio to a passable degree.
  - snvzz 7y ago
    Speakers can be nice, but nothing matches the control over each ear and the low distortion of good open headphones.
jayd16 7y ago
Traditionally, you have a movie with 2, 5, 7 channels of surround sound to create a 3d soundscape. Artists can manually place sound in those channels. The view perspective is set in stone when you're filming so its easy to place exactly what you want. In games, you usually have mono sound emitters placed in a 3d world and dynamically mix the sound channels but its still mono sound sources. You hear the same sound in all the speakers but only at different volumes. 3D audio most likely refers to newer audio systems that work with binaural of other multi channel sound sources that account for source and listener position and forward direction. These are getting popular because of VR. Its much easier to mix an ambient soundscape as 3D audio and drop it into a game than to place many emitters. You can also get some binaural effect now with current sound pipelines (VR games do it) but my guess is in this gen its most likely done with code in the CPU instead of hardware acceleration.

Disclaimer: I am an SIE employee, but this is my opinion and how I understand it from the article description. It may not be correct. It sounds like this will be similar to the way some other sound card manufacturers have created "3d audio" in that you won't need something like a 7.1 system to be able to better portray where exactly a sound is coming from. Stereo headphones will be able to give you a more immersive feeling by having audio be more directional instead of a general area (i.e. left speaker or right speaker).

jamescostian 7y ago
I've always wondered, which is better: a 7.1 system or stereo headphones with "3d audio"? And if 3d audio is so great, why doesn't everyone just use stereo speakers (maybe with a subwoofer)?
- bsagdiyev 7y ago
  I can't really give an answer to that one. I haven't gamed with a 7.1 system and generally just wear headphones when I do. I'm sure some people do use stereo speakers, but headphones are almost a given for professional gaming since it shuts out environmental noise to hear quiet noises in game. Paired with 3d audio it would probably just give better situational awareness. As to how well it will work, I can't answer that.
- jvolkman 7y ago
  Listen to some binaural audio samples with headphones. You can't get that effect with stereo speakers since they're too far away from your ears. https://youtu.be/aQH-jwE_kfo https://youtu.be/aQH-jwE_kfo
  - justinclift 7y ago
    This doesn't make sense to me. I've used 7.1 and 5.1 systems that have very good stereo imaging, and being able to place sounds clearly on one side or the other like that... didn't seem unusual.
- Dylan16807 7y ago
  To do it properly I think it does need to be headphones, and they should track your head orientation too. Speakers are much less fussy and a lot nicer in a theater setup, but without feeding directly into your ears you need to actually surround yourself with audio sources (possibly bouncing some with a sound bar).
- jdietrich 7y ago
  > I've always wondered, which is better: a 7.1 system or stereo headphones with "3d audio"? Stereo headphones all the way. You only have two ears; they can only ascertain direction based on a) the amplitude and phase differences between the sound reaching each ear and b) the frequency and time-domain filtering effects of your outer ear. These effects can be very accurately emulated using a physical head model or digital signal processing. Properly recorded and mixed binaural audio will provide the most convincing spatial effect, because your eardrums can't tell the difference between a binaural recording and actually being in an acoustic environment. >And if 3d audio is so great, why doesn't everyone just use stereo speakers (maybe with a subwoofer)? Your living room isn't an anechoic chamber, so you're hearing both the sound of your speakers and the reverberation of your room. You can tell that you're listening to two sound sources positioned in front of you, because that room reverberation provides substantial spatial information about your actual acoustic environment and degrades the spatial information of the recording. You can mount speakers really close to your ears, so you only hear the sound of each speaker with one ear without the colouring effect of your listening environment; we call such an arrangement "headphones".
  - justinclift 7y ago
    > Stereo headphones all the way. I've done both, and (for me) it's the opposite. You're probably right for "accuracy of sound", but when gaming having a bunch of powerful speakers making sound effects gives a better "experience". :) eg You can feel decent sized speakers with your whole body, which you're missing when using just headphones
    - jdietrich 7y ago
      >I've done both, and (for me) it's the opposite. Headphones provide a worse spatial experience than stereo speakers where the source material has been mixed for speakers; the equation becomes significantly different with flexible spatial formats like Dolby Atmos. >You can feel decent sized speakers with your whole body Using headphones with a subwoofer is a workable (albeit highly antisocial) option. You can't feel frequencies above about 150Hz, which is comfortably within the bandwidth of most headphones. You can also fit a low-frequency transducer to your chair, which will provide a similar feel to a powerful subwoofer without annoying the neighbours. https://soundshaker.com/ https://soundshaker.com/ Speakers are undoubtedly more convenient and more practical for shared listening, but headphones provide a simply unmatched price-to-performance ratio; to get the best out of a pair of speakers, you need to spend at least as much on acoustic treatment to control the resonance of your listening environment.
- justinclift 7y ago
  I've gamed with 7.1 systems (with good speakers - JBL Pro LSR 305 studio monitors), and with decent headphones. Headphones are much better than cheapo speaker setups, but a good 7.1 (or even 5.1) system gives a better experience. I'd probably put it down to being able to feel the noise with your whole body :) with good speakers, rather than the ears-only noise from headphones.
- falcolas 7y ago
  7.1 for positional audio. Your ears are sensitive to the direction of sound in more than just left and right. They can also determine front from back, and up/down (for sounds in front of a person). Headphones simply can't mirror that effect, and you can tell this by simply turning your head while wearing them. If the soundscape doesn't change, it's not going to be accurate in terms of position.
- jplayer01 7y ago
  Given the choice, I'd always pick the 7.1 system. I've been forced into playing primarily headphones because of where I live, but it pales in comparison with my old 7.1 setup. There's just something about the whole room being filled with sounds and vibration that you feel with your whole body that can't be replicated by headphones. If I ever get to live in a house again, first thing I buy is a good 5.1 or 7.1 system.
  - theandrewbailey 7y ago
    I just bought a house. Before turning on my PC (or even plugging it in), I set up my 7.1 system, including mounting most speakers to the living room walls. I swear that it sounds better than it did similarly set up at the old place (and that's not "it's better because I own it" sentimental BS).
    - jplayer01 7y ago
      I believe it. There are a lot of small environmental details that make a big difference to sound quality and how sound bounces around a room. Wall/floor material, distance between the speakers or to the listener, distance from the walls, ceiling height, etc. It's the kind of thing people will spend tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars to get just right.

snvzz 7y ago

I believe they're refering to binaural recordings and synthetised 3d audio effects[1]. Specifically, it's likely about the inclusion and use of TrueAudio[2], its current encarnation (TrueAudio Next) or a successor of that. On my own experience with Sennheiser HD600 headphones, these effects can sound real to the point of tricking my mind. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binaural_recording https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binaural_recording [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3D_audio_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3D_audio_effect [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMD_TrueAudio https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMD_TrueAudio

corysama 7y ago
Use https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambisonics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambisonics for internal processing then output as binaural stereo. 3D audio! External speakers can approximate binaural audio to a passable degree.
- snvzz 7y ago
  Speakers can be nice, but nothing matches the control over each ear and the low distortion of good open headphones.

jayd16 7y ago

Traditionally, you have a movie with 2, 5, 7 channels of surround sound to create a 3d soundscape. Artists can manually place sound in those channels. The view perspective is set in stone when you're filming so its easy to place exactly what you want. In games, you usually have mono sound emitters placed in a 3d world and dynamically mix the sound channels but its still mono sound sources. You hear the same sound in all the speakers but only at different volumes. 3D audio most likely refers to newer audio systems that work with binaural of other multi channel sound sources that account for source and listener position and forward direction. These are getting popular because of VR. Its much easier to mix an ambient soundscape as 3D audio and drop it into a game than to place many emitters. You can also get some binaural effect now with current sound pipelines (VR games do it) but my guess is in this gen its most likely done with code in the CPU instead of hardware acceleration.