7 ms·

I'm already being spyed on by the USA, and have been for probably decades, what's the difference?

DennisP 7y ago
As the article says, "This shouldn't surprise anyone. For years, the US and the Five Eyes have had a monopoly on spying on the Internet around the globe. Other countries want in."
- kurthr 7y ago
  Yes, but now China can check to be sure that the data they have tunneled out of the Five Eyes stores are accurate... see that's getting real intelligence information :^)
- dsl 7y ago
  Which has a bad taste of whataboutism. The huge difference is the NSA collects to achieve political goals. China spies for political and economic benefit. Foreign businesses are frequently targeted with the singular goals of IP theft or gaining leverage in business negotiations.
  - DennisP 7y ago
    Usually "whataboutism" is an attempt to deflect blame; I doubt that was Schneier's intent. The NSA claims it doesn't do economic espionage but there's evidence suggesting otherwise. Google brings up plenty of articles. For example: https://theintercept.com/2014/09/05/us-governments-plans-use-economic-espionage-benefit-american-corporations/ https://theintercept.com/2014/09/05/us-governments-plans-use... https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20150629/16134031494/nsa-despite-claiming-it-doesnt-engage-economic-espionage-engaged-economic-espionage.shtml https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20150629/16134031494/nsa-d...
  - A2017U1 7y ago
    Wow. I'm always astonished by the people who think economic espionage isn't a huge part of Western intelligence services. It is. The Americans just hide it better and it's entirely within their mandate. China couldn't care less if the world finds out. France is absolutely running wild and has been for decades. Australia has been caught planting bugs in foreign leaders offices for the sole purpose of an oil companies business deal.
penagwin 7y ago
Depends on who you are. I am absolutely against this kind of surveillance. HOWEVER, as a US citizen I trust the US more with my data (or Germany or, etc.) then China.
- thwg 7y ago
  China has a limited overseas power projection. China does not have the power to get you. But the US can pretty much get anybody. Congrats on being a US citizen.
  - penagwin 7y ago
    > Congrats on being a US citizen. I apologize, I didn't mean to come off as snarky. What I mean is that it's my own country. If I was from say Sweden, I'd likely trust the Swedish government more as a Swedish Citizen.
    - thwg 7y ago
      No worries. It's true being a US citizen carries certain guarantee of basic rights that a citizenship of any other country does not. You wouldn't believe. Sweden is really a high-trust society. You can look up any person in the country online, etc, etc.
  - jhayward 7y ago
    > China has a limited overseas power projection For a limited definition of 'power projection'. I am of the opinion that we are in the midst of a paradigm shift from overt physical power to weaponized and atomized informational power. That is to say, the use of information technology and very fine-grained details about individuals to achieve ends that suit those projecting power.
  - ajxs 7y ago
    Is this a joke, ignorance or just being plain disingenuous? The issue of Chinese money disrupting regulatory bodies and academia in Australia and New Zealand is quite severe. China has fantastic power projection with far less restraint than the US. The power projection of the US armed forces is overt in active conflict zones in the third world, but China's power projection via economic means in the first world is clearly apparent, and I think the age where this does not impact individuals directly is rapidly drawing to a close.

As the article says, "This shouldn't surprise anyone. For years, the US and the Five Eyes have had a monopoly on spying on the Internet around the globe. Other countries want in."

kurthr 7y ago
Yes, but now China can check to be sure that the data they have tunneled out of the Five Eyes stores are accurate... see that's getting real intelligence information :^)
dsl 7y ago
Which has a bad taste of whataboutism. The huge difference is the NSA collects to achieve political goals. China spies for political and economic benefit. Foreign businesses are frequently targeted with the singular goals of IP theft or gaining leverage in business negotiations.
- DennisP 7y ago
  Usually "whataboutism" is an attempt to deflect blame; I doubt that was Schneier's intent. The NSA claims it doesn't do economic espionage but there's evidence suggesting otherwise. Google brings up plenty of articles. For example: https://theintercept.com/2014/09/05/us-governments-plans-use-economic-espionage-benefit-american-corporations/ https://theintercept.com/2014/09/05/us-governments-plans-use... https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20150629/16134031494/nsa-despite-claiming-it-doesnt-engage-economic-espionage-engaged-economic-espionage.shtml https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20150629/16134031494/nsa-d...
- A2017U1 7y ago
  Wow. I'm always astonished by the people who think economic espionage isn't a huge part of Western intelligence services. It is. The Americans just hide it better and it's entirely within their mandate. China couldn't care less if the world finds out. France is absolutely running wild and has been for decades. Australia has been caught planting bugs in foreign leaders offices for the sole purpose of an oil companies business deal.

penagwin 7y ago

Depends on who you are. I am absolutely against this kind of surveillance. HOWEVER, as a US citizen I trust the US more with my data (or Germany or, etc.) then China.

thwg 7y ago
China has a limited overseas power projection. China does not have the power to get you. But the US can pretty much get anybody. Congrats on being a US citizen.
- penagwin 7y ago
  > Congrats on being a US citizen. I apologize, I didn't mean to come off as snarky. What I mean is that it's my own country. If I was from say Sweden, I'd likely trust the Swedish government more as a Swedish Citizen.
  - thwg 7y ago
    No worries. It's true being a US citizen carries certain guarantee of basic rights that a citizenship of any other country does not. You wouldn't believe. Sweden is really a high-trust society. You can look up any person in the country online, etc, etc.
- jhayward 7y ago
  > China has a limited overseas power projection For a limited definition of 'power projection'. I am of the opinion that we are in the midst of a paradigm shift from overt physical power to weaponized and atomized informational power. That is to say, the use of information technology and very fine-grained details about individuals to achieve ends that suit those projecting power.
- ajxs 7y ago
  Is this a joke, ignorance or just being plain disingenuous? The issue of Chinese money disrupting regulatory bodies and academia in Australia and New Zealand is quite severe. China has fantastic power projection with far less restraint than the US. The power projection of the US armed forces is overt in active conflict zones in the third world, but China's power projection via economic means in the first world is clearly apparent, and I think the age where this does not impact individuals directly is rapidly drawing to a close.