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The German government doesn't negotiate anything. They set prices, period. Set them too low and you create shortages. Guess what the German healthcare system ha

The German government doesn't negotiate anything. They set prices, period. Set them too low and you create shortages. Guess what the German healthcare system has, it's a shortage of doctors, especially specialists. German doctors are leaving for greener pastures, like Switzerland. They are replaced by doctors from Eastern Europe. Quality suffers. Waiting times are high. Most Germans are too uninformed or arrogant to admit it (especially to Americans) but the system sucks. That's not to say the American system is good, but I can't stand all this talk about how socialized healthcare is so great. It isn't. A lot of what people are calling "socialized" systems are actually private systems with a compulsion to purchase insurance, for example Switzerland, Netherlands, Australia. Even Germany technically has a dual system (public and private) but only the top earners are allowed to go private.

refurb 7y ago
You have a point. There are a lot of people comparing the worst parts of the US system with the best parts of the single payer systems. As a Canadian, I will say there are a lot of people dissatisfied with the Canadian system. Likely to a lesser degree than in the US, but the system is far from perfect.
- Thlom 7y ago
  Health care can never be perfect unless you (personally or government) are willing to pay an indefinite amount of money towards it. The positive with an imperfect socialized system is that it's under democratic control. In other words society decides what to prioritize.
  - exodus_de 7y ago
    > The positive with an imperfect socialized system is that it's under democratic control. In other words society decides what to prioritize. You understand that democracy means "majority rule", right? Who are the majority? The sick? The doctors? The healthcare workers earning terrible wages? The people who are actually affected by the decisions made by the majority? No, it's the average citizens who are fairly healthy. And they want to pay as little as possible or have everyone else to pay for them. So they get what they asked for, which is worse healthcare. The difference is, they force that healthcare on everyone (except the high-earners and the self-employed).
germanier 7y ago
> The German government doesn't negotiate anything. They set prices, period Incorrect. In the public system, the fees are negotiated between the GKV Spitzenverband (federal association of public health insurers) and the KBV (federal association of public doctors). Germany still is in the top group regarding quality of care indicators.
- exodus_de 7y ago
  Yes, in the public system, insurers negotiate fees with "public doctors" (Kassenarzt), but the government has the right to override (which admittedly it hasn't used). However, the prices that doctors are allowed to charge patients (private or out of pocket) are set by the government through legislation (GOÄ). There is no negotiation. You simply can not charge what you see fit, as a doctor, in Germany. Otherwise, why leave for Switzerland? You could just become a private doctor, the demand is definitely there.
incompatible 7y ago
Australia doesn't have any compulsion to purchase insurance. It's perfectly normal to skip it and receive treatment on Medicare. However, if you don't have private insurance, and have a relatively high income, you pay a tax surcharge.

refurb 7y ago

You have a point. There are a lot of people comparing the worst parts of the US system with the best parts of the single payer systems. As a Canadian, I will say there are a lot of people dissatisfied with the Canadian system. Likely to a lesser degree than in the US, but the system is far from perfect.

Thlom 7y ago
Health care can never be perfect unless you (personally or government) are willing to pay an indefinite amount of money towards it. The positive with an imperfect socialized system is that it's under democratic control. In other words society decides what to prioritize.
- exodus_de 7y ago
  > The positive with an imperfect socialized system is that it's under democratic control. In other words society decides what to prioritize. You understand that democracy means "majority rule", right? Who are the majority? The sick? The doctors? The healthcare workers earning terrible wages? The people who are actually affected by the decisions made by the majority? No, it's the average citizens who are fairly healthy. And they want to pay as little as possible or have everyone else to pay for them. So they get what they asked for, which is worse healthcare. The difference is, they force that healthcare on everyone (except the high-earners and the self-employed).

germanier 7y ago

> The German government doesn't negotiate anything. They set prices, period Incorrect. In the public system, the fees are negotiated between the GKV Spitzenverband (federal association of public health insurers) and the KBV (federal association of public doctors). Germany still is in the top group regarding quality of care indicators.

exodus_de 7y ago
Yes, in the public system, insurers negotiate fees with "public doctors" (Kassenarzt), but the government has the right to override (which admittedly it hasn't used). However, the prices that doctors are allowed to charge patients (private or out of pocket) are set by the government through legislation (GOÄ). There is no negotiation. You simply can not charge what you see fit, as a doctor, in Germany. Otherwise, why leave for Switzerland? You could just become a private doctor, the demand is definitely there.

incompatible 7y ago

Australia doesn't have any compulsion to purchase insurance. It's perfectly normal to skip it and receive treatment on Medicare. However, if you don't have private insurance, and have a relatively high income, you pay a tax surcharge.