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> Maybe the bad drivers can be given feedback that will tell them what things they can do to minimize their accident rate based on the GPS data The issue here

> Maybe the bad drivers can be given feedback that will tell them what things they can do to minimize their accident rate based on the GPS data The issue here and my concerns with GPS trackers in general is if they are seen as providing valuable insight to how a person drives. This simply is not the case because so much of driving is context dependent. A few weeks ago, my brakes gave out briefly and I swerved sharply into the shoulder of the on-ramp I was on and finally came to a stop in the median between the on-ramp and the road I was trying to merge on to. Purely from GPS data that looks like erratic and dangerous driving when in reality I saved the insurance company money by managing to avoid hitting anything with my car.

mbrameld 8y ago
Whoa, what caused your brakes to give out briefly?
- yardie 8y ago
  Brake fade probably. In stop and go traffic in a hot climate brakes can get slower to respond. The brake pedal feels mushy is the best way to describe it. I've never experienced complete failure in South Florida traffic but I do know they I have to press harder each subsequent time.
  - Scoundreller 8y ago
    AKA: When it’s time to flush your brake fluid. Also: when you have an automatic and can’t depend on your engine for some braking power to take a load off the brakes.
  - mbrameld 8y ago
    If you had left more following distance you wouldn't have had to stop as quickly or as frequently. Either that or you need to maintain the car's braking system better. The point is, the brake fading is almost certainly a result of poor driving or maintenance habits, either of which should result in paying higher insurance premiums.
    - yardie 8y ago
      1. I'm already paying a higher premium just for driving in South Florida. 2. It's called bumper to bumper traffic for a reason. Following distance is <1 cars length. Anymore than that and some bozo is going to slide into your lane. 3. You know nothing of me nor my driving habits. I simply pointed out that brakes can fail or appear to fail for reasons other than mechanical failure.
      - mbrameld 8y ago
        > 1. I'm already paying a higher premium just for driving in South Florida. Yes, but that's not because of your driving habits, is it? > 2. It's called bumper to bumper traffic for a reason. Following distance is <1 cars length. Anymore than that and some bozo is going to slide into your lane. Heaven forbid your ego take a little blow to make everybody safer. > 3. You know nothing of me nor my driving habits. I simply pointed out that brakes can fail or appear to fail for reasons other than mechanical failure. I know exactly what you've told me: You drive in a manner likely to cause your brakes to overheat and fade, a problem that many, many other people driving in the same conditions as you are able to avoid. Therefore, you should pay more than them for insurance, all else being equal.
- abright 8y ago
  I'm not entirely sure but the mechanic I trust said it was probably a bad master cylinder. That or just needed to change the brake fluid. It was definitely freaky because I like to think I do a decent job of keeping up on maintenance.
xkcd-sucks 8y ago
Especially when your GPS position jumps around in a dense urban environment! Let's hope the interns programming the ETL are actually looking and thinking and caring about the location data
asark 8y ago
When I had one on my car for a while (my wife signed us up for it with our new insurance, had to leave it on for a couple months) I had to struggle with driving safely and trying to keep that stupid thing happy (often by guesswork). If no-one modified their behavior with one on it wouldn't matter, but I'm sure everyone does so you're gonna risk ending up on the "naughty driver" list if you don't go out of your way to perform for the damn thing. Net effect, I was definitely at least a little less safe with it on. Hated it.
- gerbilly 8y ago
  > so you're gonna risk ending up on the "naughty driver" list if you don't go out of your way to perform for the damn thing. Worse than this, who say's they'll use the data honestly or competently? Maybe they will draw false inferences from your innocuous driving data and still label you a 'bad' driver. Then, if you try and argue with them, they'll make an appeal to the data, and attempt to shut down all debate.

mbrameld 8y ago

Whoa, what caused your brakes to give out briefly?

yardie 8y ago
Brake fade probably. In stop and go traffic in a hot climate brakes can get slower to respond. The brake pedal feels mushy is the best way to describe it. I've never experienced complete failure in South Florida traffic but I do know they I have to press harder each subsequent time.
- Scoundreller 8y ago
  AKA: When it’s time to flush your brake fluid. Also: when you have an automatic and can’t depend on your engine for some braking power to take a load off the brakes.
- mbrameld 8y ago
  If you had left more following distance you wouldn't have had to stop as quickly or as frequently. Either that or you need to maintain the car's braking system better. The point is, the brake fading is almost certainly a result of poor driving or maintenance habits, either of which should result in paying higher insurance premiums.
  - yardie 8y ago
    1. I'm already paying a higher premium just for driving in South Florida. 2. It's called bumper to bumper traffic for a reason. Following distance is <1 cars length. Anymore than that and some bozo is going to slide into your lane. 3. You know nothing of me nor my driving habits. I simply pointed out that brakes can fail or appear to fail for reasons other than mechanical failure.
    - mbrameld 8y ago
      > 1. I'm already paying a higher premium just for driving in South Florida. Yes, but that's not because of your driving habits, is it? > 2. It's called bumper to bumper traffic for a reason. Following distance is <1 cars length. Anymore than that and some bozo is going to slide into your lane. Heaven forbid your ego take a little blow to make everybody safer. > 3. You know nothing of me nor my driving habits. I simply pointed out that brakes can fail or appear to fail for reasons other than mechanical failure. I know exactly what you've told me: You drive in a manner likely to cause your brakes to overheat and fade, a problem that many, many other people driving in the same conditions as you are able to avoid. Therefore, you should pay more than them for insurance, all else being equal.
abright 8y ago
I'm not entirely sure but the mechanic I trust said it was probably a bad master cylinder. That or just needed to change the brake fluid. It was definitely freaky because I like to think I do a decent job of keeping up on maintenance.

xkcd-sucks 8y ago

Especially when your GPS position jumps around in a dense urban environment! Let's hope the interns programming the ETL are actually looking and thinking and caring about the location data

asark 8y ago

When I had one on my car for a while (my wife signed us up for it with our new insurance, had to leave it on for a couple months) I had to struggle with driving safely and trying to keep that stupid thing happy (often by guesswork). If no-one modified their behavior with one on it wouldn't matter, but I'm sure everyone does so you're gonna risk ending up on the "naughty driver" list if you don't go out of your way to perform for the damn thing. Net effect, I was definitely at least a little less safe with it on. Hated it.

gerbilly 8y ago
> so you're gonna risk ending up on the "naughty driver" list if you don't go out of your way to perform for the damn thing. Worse than this, who say's they'll use the data honestly or competently? Maybe they will draw false inferences from your innocuous driving data and still label you a 'bad' driver. Then, if you try and argue with them, they'll make an appeal to the data, and attempt to shut down all debate.