6 ms·

The way I've switched from a 'wake-at-2-pm' kind of person to a 'wake-at-6-am' kind of person is setting an alarm, popping 200mg caffeine + 200mg modafinil, the

by kough 8y ago

The way I've switched from a 'wake-at-2-pm' kind of person to a 'wake-at-6-am' kind of person is setting an alarm, popping 200mg caffeine + 200mg modafinil, then going back to bed. In 10 minutes I'll be right back up and ready to go to the gym and go about my day. I've started dialing back the modafinil since it seems unnecessary to get up anymore and I have some ethical concerns (see comment below.) I'll also +1 the friction removal concept -- laying out my gym clothes the night before really helps me get out the door as soon as I'm up in the morning. Otherwise, I'll tend to want to go back to bed.

felipemnoa 8y ago
>>200mg caffeine I used to be a big caffeine drinker. In my experience the problem with caffeine is that your body's tolerance to it seems to increase and so you need to keep increasing the dosage in order to get the same effect. It ended up being a net negative for me. I've noticed that the best way to wake up early is simply to go to sleep early. Takes a bit of work at the beginning if you've developed some bad habits but eventually you can get used to it. Seems to be more mental than physical. Also, caffeine should really be used only for emergencies in my opinion. Like if you've had very little sleep but you still need to be productive. Other than that I would stay away from it. Your body really does not need daily doses of caffeine to function, just like it does not need nicotine nor alcohol nor any other drug (assuming no medical need). They are just net negatives. Drink green tea if you really feel like having some mild stimulant every day.
- mnbvkhgvmj 8y ago
  Isn't green tea quite high in caffeine?
  - toomuchtodo 8y ago
    It is, but it also has L-Theanine, which moderates some of the effects of the caffeine you're consuming in green tea. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18681988 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18681988 (The combined effects of L-theanine and caffeine on cognitive performance and mood)
  - felipemnoa 8y ago
    "Green tea. usually contains around 25 milligrams of caffeine per 8-ounce serving. It's about half of the amount of caffeine found in a typical cup of black tea and one-quarter of the amount found in a typical cup of coffee." From: https://www.thespruceeats.com/caffeine-in-coffee-tea-cola-765276 https://www.thespruceeats.com/caffeine-in-coffee-tea-cola-76...
  - jadbox 8y ago
    Depending on the brand, it's equivalent to a half of cup of coffee. Although green tea contains l-theanine which helps offset the jitters from caffeine. Personally I try to limit caffeine to the most bare minimum as I personally find that it causes a reduction in my emotional spectrum.
- kough 8y ago
  I'm surprised that you're commenting about the caffeine and not the modafinil! Caffeine has lots of wonderful effects on the mind and the body. It was essential in helping me switch to an earlier routine: can't go to bed at 10pm if you're not tired because you woke up at noon; best way to be tired at 10pm is to get up at 6am; caffeine helped me get up at 6am. Cycling your caffeine intake is a great way to still reap the benefits of caffeine without building up a tolerance.
  - felipemnoa 8y ago
    >>I'm surprised that you're commenting about the caffeine and not the modafinil! I know nothing about modafinil. >>Caffeine has lots of wonderful effects on the mind and the body It allows you to be productive even after not enough sleep. Unfortunately you can only keep this up for so long. In my case I now only use caffeine when I really need it. I'll gulp down three or four cups of coffee if I need to do all nighters. And because I have virtually no tolerance to it anymore the caffeine will work like a charm and I will not feel tired at all.
  - rubicon33 8y ago
    > Cycling your caffeine intake is a great way to still reap the benefits of caffeine without building up a tolerance. I've tried this. Doesn't work for me. Seems like my body built a tolerance to caffeine, and no amount of break from it (even a month) will reset that tolerance.
    - ianai 8y ago
      You probably need to avoid caffeine altogether. Might try theobromine from brewed roasted cacao.
      - rubicon33 8y ago
        Interesting, I'll look into that. Thanks
- aaronbrethorst 8y ago
  Counterpoint: Coffee is delicious, and may have some health benefits. But, mostly, it's delicious. https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/the-latest-scoop-on-the-health-benefits-of-coffee-2017092512429 https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/the-latest-scoop-on-the-...
  - geofft 8y ago
    I too find caffeine delicious, but then I realized that I have to have coffee every morning, the same amount, and can't have more coffee during the rest of the day, and am not even awake enough to enjoy the coffee I do have in the morning. So I've been cutting down and drinking lower-strength of coffee, and more recently tea and lower-strength tea (which is also delicious). There are other delicious things I can eat and drink the rest of the day that don't have drugs in them.
  - idDriven 8y ago
    I find it strange how many people have this puritanical mindset that just because something is pleasurable or can induce some degree of physical dependency this automatically equates to something with negative health consequences or something that they should feel guilty about imbibing. Coffee is one of the, or the best, source of antioxidants in the standard American diet. Barring pre-existing Cardiac health issues there is no harm to daily use as long as you don't exceed maximum recommended caffeine doses, which was around six shots of espresso or equivalent. Furthermore "In some publications, caffeine and trigonelline are considered to be antioxidants also." There is much more medical evidence that coffee is uniquely beneficial than otherwise. Just one (of many) sources and source of above quote: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4665516/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4665516/
- azinman2 8y ago
  I’ve found melatonin effective for resetting my sleep schedule.
- danenania 8y ago
  For people like me who often find "go to sleep early" impossible, try to get in an hour or so of solid exercise at least every couple of days--running, biking, lifting, or whatever--something that will fully exhaust you physically. And if possible, do it outside in the sun. This is the best way I've found to regulate sleeping patterns, and it also counteracts caffeine if I've had too much. I haven't found anything else that works as well.
erentz 8y ago
> 200mg modafinil The wide use of drugs as performance enhancers in our industry really makes me unhappy and uncomfortable. (I guess it probably exists in other industries too?) I can't work out how to properly put into words how or why it makes me uncomfortable. But it seems like instead of drawing lines and saying people shouldn't need to take ADHD medication to focus, or modafinil to work unnatural hours, or ambien to sleep on planes, we're just going along with it. Like the work should come first, and of course we should take drugs to allow us to meet work expectations, or to get the upper hand in intra-employee competition, etc.
- 1337biz 8y ago
  Same here, but I would rather go on unemployment benefits than hurting my body to become a more efficient work machine. Life is too short.
- kough 8y ago
  I'm deeply uncomfortable with it too, and that's why I'm probably going to taper down to a complete stop. It's just hard to want to do that when I'm much more focused and productive when I'm on strong stimulants. All of my most effective coworkers are medicated.
  - geofft 8y ago
    Are you happy when you're more focused and productive? (I am, fwiw, this isn't an "are you really happy" question.)
  - Karrot_Kream 8y ago
    This isn't sustainable. Ask older folks around you who used to use a lot of stimulants when they were younger, and you'll find the answer. Stimulant use is a lot harder on the body and the mind the older you get. Caffeine, as a light stimulant, is better, but can also be problematic. I've encountered these work environments before and I wouldn't want to again. In my case it was a bunch of young people pushing themselves to the brink hoping to win the startup lottery as early as possible. They didn't of course. I hope your work environment isn't like this.
slededit 8y ago
Serious question: Is it really worth the trade off? My biggest fear is to start needing prescription drugs for anything.
slaveofallah93 8y ago
Have you tried lowering your dose? I only need 50 mg of moda in the morning to wake up and be productive.
antisthenes 8y ago
> setting an alarm, popping 200mg caffeine + 200mg modafinil Wow, pumping yourself full of drugs just so you can be a better cog in a machine? Thanks, but honestly that's a non-starter. I'm not sure how we got to this point, but please reconsider - some employers might actually look at this and think that's an acceptable thing to suggest to an employee.

by kough 8y ago

felipemnoa 8y ago

>>200mg caffeine I used to be a big caffeine drinker. In my experience the problem with caffeine is that your body's tolerance to it seems to increase and so you need to keep increasing the dosage in order to get the same effect. It ended up being a net negative for me. I've noticed that the best way to wake up early is simply to go to sleep early. Takes a bit of work at the beginning if you've developed some bad habits but eventually you can get used to it. Seems to be more mental than physical. Also, caffeine should really be used only for emergencies in my opinion. Like if you've had very little sleep but you still need to be productive. Other than that I would stay away from it. Your body really does not need daily doses of caffeine to function, just like it does not need nicotine nor alcohol nor any other drug (assuming no medical need). They are just net negatives. Drink green tea if you really feel like having some mild stimulant every day.

mnbvkhgvmj 8y ago
Isn't green tea quite high in caffeine?
- toomuchtodo 8y ago
  It is, but it also has L-Theanine, which moderates some of the effects of the caffeine you're consuming in green tea. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18681988 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18681988 (The combined effects of L-theanine and caffeine on cognitive performance and mood)
- felipemnoa 8y ago
  "Green tea. usually contains around 25 milligrams of caffeine per 8-ounce serving. It's about half of the amount of caffeine found in a typical cup of black tea and one-quarter of the amount found in a typical cup of coffee." From: https://www.thespruceeats.com/caffeine-in-coffee-tea-cola-765276 https://www.thespruceeats.com/caffeine-in-coffee-tea-cola-76...
- jadbox 8y ago
  Depending on the brand, it's equivalent to a half of cup of coffee. Although green tea contains l-theanine which helps offset the jitters from caffeine. Personally I try to limit caffeine to the most bare minimum as I personally find that it causes a reduction in my emotional spectrum.
kough 8y ago
I'm surprised that you're commenting about the caffeine and not the modafinil! Caffeine has lots of wonderful effects on the mind and the body. It was essential in helping me switch to an earlier routine: can't go to bed at 10pm if you're not tired because you woke up at noon; best way to be tired at 10pm is to get up at 6am; caffeine helped me get up at 6am. Cycling your caffeine intake is a great way to still reap the benefits of caffeine without building up a tolerance.
- felipemnoa 8y ago
  >>I'm surprised that you're commenting about the caffeine and not the modafinil! I know nothing about modafinil. >>Caffeine has lots of wonderful effects on the mind and the body It allows you to be productive even after not enough sleep. Unfortunately you can only keep this up for so long. In my case I now only use caffeine when I really need it. I'll gulp down three or four cups of coffee if I need to do all nighters. And because I have virtually no tolerance to it anymore the caffeine will work like a charm and I will not feel tired at all.
- rubicon33 8y ago
  > Cycling your caffeine intake is a great way to still reap the benefits of caffeine without building up a tolerance. I've tried this. Doesn't work for me. Seems like my body built a tolerance to caffeine, and no amount of break from it (even a month) will reset that tolerance.
  - ianai 8y ago
    You probably need to avoid caffeine altogether. Might try theobromine from brewed roasted cacao.
    - rubicon33 8y ago
      Interesting, I'll look into that. Thanks
aaronbrethorst 8y ago
Counterpoint: Coffee is delicious, and may have some health benefits. But, mostly, it's delicious. https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/the-latest-scoop-on-the-health-benefits-of-coffee-2017092512429 https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/the-latest-scoop-on-the-...
- geofft 8y ago
  I too find caffeine delicious, but then I realized that I have to have coffee every morning, the same amount, and can't have more coffee during the rest of the day, and am not even awake enough to enjoy the coffee I do have in the morning. So I've been cutting down and drinking lower-strength of coffee, and more recently tea and lower-strength tea (which is also delicious). There are other delicious things I can eat and drink the rest of the day that don't have drugs in them.
- idDriven 8y ago
  I find it strange how many people have this puritanical mindset that just because something is pleasurable or can induce some degree of physical dependency this automatically equates to something with negative health consequences or something that they should feel guilty about imbibing. Coffee is one of the, or the best, source of antioxidants in the standard American diet. Barring pre-existing Cardiac health issues there is no harm to daily use as long as you don't exceed maximum recommended caffeine doses, which was around six shots of espresso or equivalent. Furthermore "In some publications, caffeine and trigonelline are considered to be antioxidants also." There is much more medical evidence that coffee is uniquely beneficial than otherwise. Just one (of many) sources and source of above quote: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4665516/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4665516/
azinman2 8y ago
I’ve found melatonin effective for resetting my sleep schedule.
danenania 8y ago
For people like me who often find "go to sleep early" impossible, try to get in an hour or so of solid exercise at least every couple of days--running, biking, lifting, or whatever--something that will fully exhaust you physically. And if possible, do it outside in the sun. This is the best way I've found to regulate sleeping patterns, and it also counteracts caffeine if I've had too much. I haven't found anything else that works as well.

erentz 8y ago

> 200mg modafinil The wide use of drugs as performance enhancers in our industry really makes me unhappy and uncomfortable. (I guess it probably exists in other industries too?) I can't work out how to properly put into words how or why it makes me uncomfortable. But it seems like instead of drawing lines and saying people shouldn't need to take ADHD medication to focus, or modafinil to work unnatural hours, or ambien to sleep on planes, we're just going along with it. Like the work should come first, and of course we should take drugs to allow us to meet work expectations, or to get the upper hand in intra-employee competition, etc.

1337biz 8y ago
Same here, but I would rather go on unemployment benefits than hurting my body to become a more efficient work machine. Life is too short.
kough 8y ago
I'm deeply uncomfortable with it too, and that's why I'm probably going to taper down to a complete stop. It's just hard to want to do that when I'm much more focused and productive when I'm on strong stimulants. All of my most effective coworkers are medicated.
- geofft 8y ago
  Are you happy when you're more focused and productive? (I am, fwiw, this isn't an "are you really happy" question.)
- Karrot_Kream 8y ago
  This isn't sustainable. Ask older folks around you who used to use a lot of stimulants when they were younger, and you'll find the answer. Stimulant use is a lot harder on the body and the mind the older you get. Caffeine, as a light stimulant, is better, but can also be problematic. I've encountered these work environments before and I wouldn't want to again. In my case it was a bunch of young people pushing themselves to the brink hoping to win the startup lottery as early as possible. They didn't of course. I hope your work environment isn't like this.

slededit 8y ago

Serious question: Is it really worth the trade off? My biggest fear is to start needing prescription drugs for anything.

slaveofallah93 8y ago

Have you tried lowering your dose? I only need 50 mg of moda in the morning to wake up and be productive.

antisthenes 8y ago

> setting an alarm, popping 200mg caffeine + 200mg modafinil Wow, pumping yourself full of drugs just so you can be a better cog in a machine? Thanks, but honestly that's a non-starter. I'm not sure how we got to this point, but please reconsider - some employers might actually look at this and think that's an acceptable thing to suggest to an employee.