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The rich are depressed, the middle-class is shrinking and fearful, the poor are hopeless. I'm gonna take a leap here and say maybe people need some religion in

The rich are depressed, the middle-class is shrinking and fearful, the poor are hopeless. I'm gonna take a leap here and say maybe people need some religion in their lives to give direction and meaning. I found it interesting that a person in the article who made $1.2M a year was still depressed in thinking they were wasting their lives and it was all meaningless. I ask myself, does this person have children? a family to leave wealth to? or children to teach values to? I'm sorry but we have become so weak in our desire to satisfy only our own goals. That person's duty is to his family, and children (if he has any). His duty to society is to raise children with values that are compatible with the society. Religion instills this virtue and gives framework of how our actions on earth and our ability to reason and create is an imitation of "god" aka creation of existence.

martythemaniak 8y ago
I agree in general, it's something I've thought about. Sometimes I want to quit my software dev job and become a shaman because I see people miserable and unable to make sense of their lives. But who can afford to live on a shaman's salary :p One thing I've consistently noticed in regards to jobs is that people's perceptions are very inward focused. It is all about whether they are fulfilled, if they are interested, if they are bored, if they're learning, etc. You can see this clearly in discussions on HN about "Bullshit Jobs". If people thought more about whether their job is useful to other people, rather than gratifying to themselves, they'll come to very different conclusions.
AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
I disagree about it being religion specifically, but I would say that people need a better philosophy, a model of reality, to understand why the things they think will make them happy don't.
- toasterlovin 8y ago
  I think it's useful to divorce the concept Religion from the concept of God in your mind. IMO, the religions of the future will be God-less. If you look at the jobs that religions typically do, a lot of the ground is being covered by science (telling a story about how we came to exist and what our purpose is) and the rest is being covered by political ideologies (how we should live our lives and how we should relate to other people). Someone is going to figure out how to marry those two together someday...
  - vibrato 8y ago
    The religion of social justice based on marxist identity politics is alive and well.
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
    I disagree about it being God-less per-se. I think people will come back around to a conception of God, not as an anthropomorphized magic sky wizard full of wrath and dogma, but as a philosophical concept that seems to underpin all of reality. And when that happens, they will look back at the religions of the past and find that they, in their own words, often spoke the same wisdom that will then be commonplace. We merely misunderstood it because we lacked the context see what what was really meant. Because the thing about context is that it is necessary for communication, and you don't get it for free.
isoskeles 8y ago
His duty is to go traveling and have adventures and drink the finest craft beers. I can't imagine why he'd find that all meaningless.
HashHishBang 8y ago
Because a 10% tithe is definitely something the shrinking middle class and the hopeless lower class can afford. But putting that aside this sentiment of "look how bad things seem for people, religion can help" reeks of predatory behavior. If none turn towards whatever god you preach in times of plenty then what is left? To strike in a moment of weakness? To shift blame from whatever problems could be solved to instead attribute success and failure to the nebulous concept of faith? It's disgusting. >That person's duty is to his family, and children (if he has any). His duty to society is to raise children with values that are compatible with the society A society that is growing increasingly secular.
- bdamm 8y ago
  It's increasingly secular right now. But religions grow and shrink like fashions and a new clutch may rise to fill the evident vacuum.
  - HashHishBang 8y ago
    Sure it's possible but one can hope we've grown beyond the majority needing a crutch to get through life.
    - bdamm 8y ago
      It may not be a crutch at all, but an essential part of human society. That's not the same as to say we need excessive dogma, churches funding super-PACs, DMCA wielding lawyers on staff, or silent code for dealing with rapist priests. We do need community, guidance, and a safe place to seek help when we're in trouble. Surely we can let some religions go by the wayside, and perhaps embrace alternatives that aren't in conflict with science or the contemporary rule of law.
- 3minus1 8y ago
  There's no denomination or sect that actually tithes 10% on average. There was a freakonomics episode about it. There was as researcher who found that certain donominations tithe more or less but none reached 10%.
canada_dry 8y ago
> maybe people need some religion in their lives I'm going take 'religion' to simply mean 'something that gives them purpose and fulfillment' and agree. Now that I'm reasonably comfortable (semi-retired, no debts) I've been focusing on "mindfulness" i.e. being fully present in the moment and enjoying the moment. Not looking at the past or longing for some particular future. I think this helps.
jgust 8y ago
I agree with your point, but not necessarily the execution. We deserve a better religion, one that skips the hand-wavey-guy-in-the-sky implausibility but can still serve as a mental shortcut for whatever society agrees morality is ~currently~.
- kartan 8y ago
  > but can still serve as a mental shortcut for whatever society agrees morality is ~currently~. Can that be philosophy and humanist approaches? That is a way to look for higher meaning without rewarding fanaticism or dogma.
nimonian 8y ago
> maybe people need some religion in their lives to give direction and meaning I can't just accept dogma because I'm miserable. I can't just say 2+2=5 even if it would make me feel better. Religion isn't something you can just pick up like pilates. If life is inherently without meaning or direction, I'd rather go with that and be true to myself than refract the universe through some doctrine I understand to be false. Self-knowledge, mindfulness, wisdom, spirituality, reflectiveness - I can make my peace with these. But I think it is bordering on unfair to proffer a deity as a solution to depression and anxiety.
- kough 8y ago
  Practicing regularly to increase self-knowledge, thinking spiritually, reflecting on your relation to the world – do you not consider that a religion? Organized Christianity is just one flavor.
  - nostromo 8y ago
    > Practicing regularly to increase self-knowledge, thinking spiritually, reflecting on your relation to the world – do you not consider that a religion? I'd call that mindfulness not religion.
    - germinalphrase 8y ago
      Religion has been the guiding force for this kind of internal reflection and family/community thought. As religion has declined in many west societies, we haven’t replaced them effectively. We may not need more religion, but it sure seems like we need something. Building our society so heavily on economic expediency can’t be healthy long term.
      - munk-a 8y ago
        I'm in favor of more prolific philosophy circles. There is probably a group in your area that gets together regularly to discuss the works of different philosophers, join in and study up on some Kierkegaard and I think you'll find it gives you a lot of the same pay off.
kough 8y ago
I don't know why you were downvoted, this is right on the money. There's a reason we've all heard the phrase "crisis of meaning."
justwalt 8y ago
I’ve agreed with this more and more as I get older. It wouldn’t surprise me if this correlation was pretty much universal. It reminds me of using cheat codes in old video games. When you play normally, you’re chasing an objective that can take you a substantial amount of hours to achieve. But once you activate god mode and unlimited resources, the interest/enjoyment lasts about 15 minutes, and then the game feels pointless to play. Without a higher purpose, then what is there? Personally, I don’t think I could ever be persuaded by or force myself to subscribe to to any religion. The highest goal I’ve given myself is to create a great family and teach my future children as best I can. I find it easier to ignore the question of “But why?” a little easier with this goal in mind than others.
obastani 8y ago
> He had received an offer at a start-up, and he would have loved to take it, but it paid half as much, and he felt locked into a lifestyle that made this pay cut impossible. “My wife laughed when I told her about it,” he said. It sounds like part of the problem is his family (or at least with his wife)...
sp527 8y ago
You could also simply read excellent literature. That’s a more effective strategy to unpack and comprehend the human experience, with the added benefit of not incorporating tall tales of dubious veracity.
adamredwoods 8y ago
My take was that the author's life only revolved around working, trying to maintain a set income level, and therefore did not have time to explore more interesting ventures.
vasilipupkin 8y ago
beware of journalism masquerading as statistical analysis. This is useful as an interesting and entertaining serioes of anecdotes, not as a guide to what is actually taking place.
munk-a 8y ago
I have individual faith and it's arisen out of a general respect for nature and acceptance of existential philosophical crises but... I'm never setting foot in a church. Organized religion in America is a toxic and terrible institution. When I was growing up my parents were friends with a couple that had moved up from Georgia, as I grew older I learned that they have moved there after the father had been the pastor of a church and, when their daughter was born with down's syndrome. Due to the birth he had taken a sabbatical from preaching to raise his daughter, and while they were absent they became ostracized by the community. They were given the southern shame treatment and cut off from friends until they gave in and just moved up to New England. While they were being shamed by their neighbors everything else carried on as normal, those neighbors went to church and prayed with everyone else and I outright reject any institution that supports that kind of behavior. Organized religion is responsible to so many ills in modern society.
- tenpies 8y ago
  Just curious, but how do you know that the church they prayed at supports the behaviour of their neighbours? It just strikes me as odd logic, like saying that because a thief goes to church to pray, that church must condone thievery.
  - munk-a 8y ago
    Because the church was the community and the community shunned them as a group. Churches and organized religions lead to group think and in this case that group think was directed toward a deeply hateful purpose. I have my own personal issues with religions involvement in politics on the modern stage, as well as the general concept of a prosperity gospel and the ills it forces on those who already have so little but what happened to that family is deeply disappointing and stabs at the core of me.
kartan 8y ago
> Religion instills this virtue and gives framework of how our actions on earth and our ability to reason and create is an imitation of "god" aka creation of existence. Isn't USA more religious than other more happy countries? Is not possible that actually religion and other external expectations are making Americans miserable? If any, there is a correlation between religious countries and unhappiness. Can you elaborate more on why do you think that religion is the solution and not the real problem?
- harperlee 8y ago
  Really? I read long time ago, not at the country level, but that religious individuals were more happy. Edit: https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/religion-happy-atheism-psychology-faith-belief-emotion-mental-health-christianity-a8766376.html https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/religion-happy-athe...
dqpb 8y ago
Living in a cosmological fantasy doesn't give your life meaning. Mass delusion isn't direction. Religion uses the facade of "values" to cover up it's core insanity, and sweep it's centuries of war mongering under the rug. I agree that raising a family makes your life more fulfilling and meaningful. After all, reproduction is arguably the "meaning" of life. But, raising children in a religion that warps their concept of reality is child abuse.
caconym_ 8y ago
I think it is a leap to say that duty and/or religion are the only logical cures for the existential ills of a miserable person stuck on a meaningless treadmill. I started writing fiction in my own time and it has done wonders for my mental health and existential outlook. I do it for myself alone, and I'm not sorry for that; I certainly won't be made to feel guilty about it. I'm sure what I'm doing is just one of many roads people could take out of their existential doldrums. Religion is one of those roads, I have no doubt.
fzeroracer 8y ago
America is already incredibly religious and the rich/wealthy are no exception. What exactly makes you think that these miserable people are not religious? Because it seems like you're extrapolating miserable = lack of religion, which seems like a nonsensical connection. Religion has nothing to do with this unless you decide to No True Scotsman and claim that they aren't actually religious. The issue is that they're chasing a lifestyle of endless consumption where at a certain point consumption doesn't actually add anything to your life. Better houses, more cars, wealthier friends, eventually you hit a point where your capital only marginally affects your life until you hop into the hyper-wealthy category. At that point you can start using capital to influence policy but that still relies on personal conviction.
- zanny 8y ago
  I think OP means religion in the framing context of spiritual belief in a moral philosophy, less in which flavor of the god of Moses you want to throw your sword behind. Consumerism is, in large part, a religion. Its just, as you describe, a really shitty one. Capitalism for the capitalists is a religion. Totalitarianism for the dictator is a religion. I'd bet a lot of the animators and artists working at Disney and Pixar treat their business model and the company proper as a religion - the experience, the intent, the purpose behind what they do. For the shareholders its just to make gross amounts of money by owning all culture, but for those in the trenches giving their blood they probably feel like they are creating joy and that is a valuable pursuit. Same for those working at Space X or Tesla or probably even Google and Apple. Most of the employees at those companies drink the kool-aid and have faith. In those regards, anyone who is just existing, or anyone without faith - and it need not be more complicated than just faith in humanity or the potential for good in people or the promise of the future - is living a hollow, pointless life. And I'd buy that argument.
sjjshvuiajhz 8y ago
A depressed person will find a way to be depressed about religion, eg. obsessing over whether they or others are committing various sins. I think the problem is a type of thinking deeply ingrained in our culture (and maybe built into the human brain) - the deep desire for things to be different than they are, the critical instinct. You can always find something to dislike about your house, the food you are eating, the movies you are watching, the car you are driving, your coworkers, friends, and family members. People are so good at being critical. Is it any wonder they are depressed when they have a hair trigger to detect the negatives in everything? Appreciating what you have is a virtue, and you don’t get it automatically - you have to intentionally opt in, deliberately try to think of the positives. The rewards are great and you don’t need religion to get them. Religion won’t even help in many cases where it’s more fear-based.
AlexB138 8y ago
I think you're very close to right, but not quite. I think what we actually need is something that fills the role religion used to fit into, but that is compatible with the modern world. Religions have too many supernatural elements that attempted to explain the world before we actually had the tools to find real answers. People see that dissonance, and a lot of the social control imposed by religion, become distrustful, and "throw out the baby with the bathwater". It's unfortunate because they then lose a lot of the wonderful underlying messages and meaning religion can give to life. I think a lot of people feel that gap, and that's why you see a lot of the flimsy "spirituality" that is essentially just feel-good notions cobbled together. Eliade talked about this in The sacred and the profane: The nature of religion. People want meaning beyond pleasing themselves, they've just completely lost it in the face of a culture advocating self interest and consumption, and increasing secularism.
libraryatnight 8y ago
The happiest people I know aren't religious, but they have strong personal philosophies born out of healthy relationships and education. We don't need religion, we just need a healthier culture.
Balgair 8y ago
Many commentators in this sub-thread mention that they can't accept the dogmas of a religion, despite acknowledging community and other benefits. For some, the Unitarian Universalist Church may be a good middle-ground: https://www.uua.org/find https://www.uua.org/find Individual congregations vary widely, so finding one near you that fits best may take a few months/weekends. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitarian_Universalism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitarian_Universalism

martythemaniak 8y ago

I agree in general, it's something I've thought about. Sometimes I want to quit my software dev job and become a shaman because I see people miserable and unable to make sense of their lives. But who can afford to live on a shaman's salary :p One thing I've consistently noticed in regards to jobs is that people's perceptions are very inward focused. It is all about whether they are fulfilled, if they are interested, if they are bored, if they're learning, etc. You can see this clearly in discussions on HN about "Bullshit Jobs". If people thought more about whether their job is useful to other people, rather than gratifying to themselves, they'll come to very different conclusions.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago

I disagree about it being religion specifically, but I would say that people need a better philosophy, a model of reality, to understand why the things they think will make them happy don't.

toasterlovin 8y ago
I think it's useful to divorce the concept Religion from the concept of God in your mind. IMO, the religions of the future will be God-less. If you look at the jobs that religions typically do, a lot of the ground is being covered by science (telling a story about how we came to exist and what our purpose is) and the rest is being covered by political ideologies (how we should live our lives and how we should relate to other people). Someone is going to figure out how to marry those two together someday...
- vibrato 8y ago
  The religion of social justice based on marxist identity politics is alive and well.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
  I disagree about it being God-less per-se. I think people will come back around to a conception of God, not as an anthropomorphized magic sky wizard full of wrath and dogma, but as a philosophical concept that seems to underpin all of reality. And when that happens, they will look back at the religions of the past and find that they, in their own words, often spoke the same wisdom that will then be commonplace. We merely misunderstood it because we lacked the context see what what was really meant. Because the thing about context is that it is necessary for communication, and you don't get it for free.

isoskeles 8y ago

His duty is to go traveling and have adventures and drink the finest craft beers. I can't imagine why he'd find that all meaningless.

HashHishBang 8y ago

Because a 10% tithe is definitely something the shrinking middle class and the hopeless lower class can afford. But putting that aside this sentiment of "look how bad things seem for people, religion can help" reeks of predatory behavior. If none turn towards whatever god you preach in times of plenty then what is left? To strike in a moment of weakness? To shift blame from whatever problems could be solved to instead attribute success and failure to the nebulous concept of faith? It's disgusting. >That person's duty is to his family, and children (if he has any). His duty to society is to raise children with values that are compatible with the society A society that is growing increasingly secular.

bdamm 8y ago
It's increasingly secular right now. But religions grow and shrink like fashions and a new clutch may rise to fill the evident vacuum.
- HashHishBang 8y ago
  Sure it's possible but one can hope we've grown beyond the majority needing a crutch to get through life.
  - bdamm 8y ago
    It may not be a crutch at all, but an essential part of human society. That's not the same as to say we need excessive dogma, churches funding super-PACs, DMCA wielding lawyers on staff, or silent code for dealing with rapist priests. We do need community, guidance, and a safe place to seek help when we're in trouble. Surely we can let some religions go by the wayside, and perhaps embrace alternatives that aren't in conflict with science or the contemporary rule of law.
3minus1 8y ago
There's no denomination or sect that actually tithes 10% on average. There was a freakonomics episode about it. There was as researcher who found that certain donominations tithe more or less but none reached 10%.

canada_dry 8y ago

> maybe people need some religion in their lives I'm going take 'religion' to simply mean 'something that gives them purpose and fulfillment' and agree. Now that I'm reasonably comfortable (semi-retired, no debts) I've been focusing on "mindfulness" i.e. being fully present in the moment and enjoying the moment. Not looking at the past or longing for some particular future. I think this helps.

jgust 8y ago

I agree with your point, but not necessarily the execution. We deserve a better religion, one that skips the hand-wavey-guy-in-the-sky implausibility but can still serve as a mental shortcut for whatever society agrees morality is ~currently~.

kartan 8y ago
> but can still serve as a mental shortcut for whatever society agrees morality is ~currently~. Can that be philosophy and humanist approaches? That is a way to look for higher meaning without rewarding fanaticism or dogma.

nimonian 8y ago

> maybe people need some religion in their lives to give direction and meaning I can't just accept dogma because I'm miserable. I can't just say 2+2=5 even if it would make me feel better. Religion isn't something you can just pick up like pilates. If life is inherently without meaning or direction, I'd rather go with that and be true to myself than refract the universe through some doctrine I understand to be false. Self-knowledge, mindfulness, wisdom, spirituality, reflectiveness - I can make my peace with these. But I think it is bordering on unfair to proffer a deity as a solution to depression and anxiety.

kough 8y ago
Practicing regularly to increase self-knowledge, thinking spiritually, reflecting on your relation to the world – do you not consider that a religion? Organized Christianity is just one flavor.
- nostromo 8y ago
  > Practicing regularly to increase self-knowledge, thinking spiritually, reflecting on your relation to the world – do you not consider that a religion? I'd call that mindfulness not religion.
  - germinalphrase 8y ago
    Religion has been the guiding force for this kind of internal reflection and family/community thought. As religion has declined in many west societies, we haven’t replaced them effectively. We may not need more religion, but it sure seems like we need something. Building our society so heavily on economic expediency can’t be healthy long term.
    - munk-a 8y ago
      I'm in favor of more prolific philosophy circles. There is probably a group in your area that gets together regularly to discuss the works of different philosophers, join in and study up on some Kierkegaard and I think you'll find it gives you a lot of the same pay off.

kough 8y ago

I don't know why you were downvoted, this is right on the money. There's a reason we've all heard the phrase "crisis of meaning."

justwalt 8y ago

I’ve agreed with this more and more as I get older. It wouldn’t surprise me if this correlation was pretty much universal. It reminds me of using cheat codes in old video games. When you play normally, you’re chasing an objective that can take you a substantial amount of hours to achieve. But once you activate god mode and unlimited resources, the interest/enjoyment lasts about 15 minutes, and then the game feels pointless to play. Without a higher purpose, then what is there? Personally, I don’t think I could ever be persuaded by or force myself to subscribe to to any religion. The highest goal I’ve given myself is to create a great family and teach my future children as best I can. I find it easier to ignore the question of “But why?” a little easier with this goal in mind than others.

obastani 8y ago

> He had received an offer at a start-up, and he would have loved to take it, but it paid half as much, and he felt locked into a lifestyle that made this pay cut impossible. “My wife laughed when I told her about it,” he said. It sounds like part of the problem is his family (or at least with his wife)...

sp527 8y ago

You could also simply read excellent literature. That’s a more effective strategy to unpack and comprehend the human experience, with the added benefit of not incorporating tall tales of dubious veracity.

adamredwoods 8y ago

My take was that the author's life only revolved around working, trying to maintain a set income level, and therefore did not have time to explore more interesting ventures.

vasilipupkin 8y ago

beware of journalism masquerading as statistical analysis. This is useful as an interesting and entertaining serioes of anecdotes, not as a guide to what is actually taking place.

munk-a 8y ago

I have individual faith and it's arisen out of a general respect for nature and acceptance of existential philosophical crises but... I'm never setting foot in a church. Organized religion in America is a toxic and terrible institution. When I was growing up my parents were friends with a couple that had moved up from Georgia, as I grew older I learned that they have moved there after the father had been the pastor of a church and, when their daughter was born with down's syndrome. Due to the birth he had taken a sabbatical from preaching to raise his daughter, and while they were absent they became ostracized by the community. They were given the southern shame treatment and cut off from friends until they gave in and just moved up to New England. While they were being shamed by their neighbors everything else carried on as normal, those neighbors went to church and prayed with everyone else and I outright reject any institution that supports that kind of behavior. Organized religion is responsible to so many ills in modern society.

tenpies 8y ago
Just curious, but how do you know that the church they prayed at supports the behaviour of their neighbours? It just strikes me as odd logic, like saying that because a thief goes to church to pray, that church must condone thievery.
- munk-a 8y ago
  Because the church was the community and the community shunned them as a group. Churches and organized religions lead to group think and in this case that group think was directed toward a deeply hateful purpose. I have my own personal issues with religions involvement in politics on the modern stage, as well as the general concept of a prosperity gospel and the ills it forces on those who already have so little but what happened to that family is deeply disappointing and stabs at the core of me.

kartan 8y ago

> Religion instills this virtue and gives framework of how our actions on earth and our ability to reason and create is an imitation of "god" aka creation of existence. Isn't USA more religious than other more happy countries? Is not possible that actually religion and other external expectations are making Americans miserable? If any, there is a correlation between religious countries and unhappiness. Can you elaborate more on why do you think that religion is the solution and not the real problem?

harperlee 8y ago
Really? I read long time ago, not at the country level, but that religious individuals were more happy. Edit: https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/religion-happy-atheism-psychology-faith-belief-emotion-mental-health-christianity-a8766376.html https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/religion-happy-athe...

dqpb 8y ago

Living in a cosmological fantasy doesn't give your life meaning. Mass delusion isn't direction. Religion uses the facade of "values" to cover up it's core insanity, and sweep it's centuries of war mongering under the rug. I agree that raising a family makes your life more fulfilling and meaningful. After all, reproduction is arguably the "meaning" of life. But, raising children in a religion that warps their concept of reality is child abuse.

caconym_ 8y ago

I think it is a leap to say that duty and/or religion are the only logical cures for the existential ills of a miserable person stuck on a meaningless treadmill. I started writing fiction in my own time and it has done wonders for my mental health and existential outlook. I do it for myself alone, and I'm not sorry for that; I certainly won't be made to feel guilty about it. I'm sure what I'm doing is just one of many roads people could take out of their existential doldrums. Religion is one of those roads, I have no doubt.

fzeroracer 8y ago

America is already incredibly religious and the rich/wealthy are no exception. What exactly makes you think that these miserable people are not religious? Because it seems like you're extrapolating miserable = lack of religion, which seems like a nonsensical connection. Religion has nothing to do with this unless you decide to No True Scotsman and claim that they aren't actually religious. The issue is that they're chasing a lifestyle of endless consumption where at a certain point consumption doesn't actually add anything to your life. Better houses, more cars, wealthier friends, eventually you hit a point where your capital only marginally affects your life until you hop into the hyper-wealthy category. At that point you can start using capital to influence policy but that still relies on personal conviction.

zanny 8y ago
I think OP means religion in the framing context of spiritual belief in a moral philosophy, less in which flavor of the god of Moses you want to throw your sword behind. Consumerism is, in large part, a religion. Its just, as you describe, a really shitty one. Capitalism for the capitalists is a religion. Totalitarianism for the dictator is a religion. I'd bet a lot of the animators and artists working at Disney and Pixar treat their business model and the company proper as a religion - the experience, the intent, the purpose behind what they do. For the shareholders its just to make gross amounts of money by owning all culture, but for those in the trenches giving their blood they probably feel like they are creating joy and that is a valuable pursuit. Same for those working at Space X or Tesla or probably even Google and Apple. Most of the employees at those companies drink the kool-aid and have faith. In those regards, anyone who is just existing, or anyone without faith - and it need not be more complicated than just faith in humanity or the potential for good in people or the promise of the future - is living a hollow, pointless life. And I'd buy that argument.

sjjshvuiajhz 8y ago

A depressed person will find a way to be depressed about religion, eg. obsessing over whether they or others are committing various sins. I think the problem is a type of thinking deeply ingrained in our culture (and maybe built into the human brain) - the deep desire for things to be different than they are, the critical instinct. You can always find something to dislike about your house, the food you are eating, the movies you are watching, the car you are driving, your coworkers, friends, and family members. People are so good at being critical. Is it any wonder they are depressed when they have a hair trigger to detect the negatives in everything? Appreciating what you have is a virtue, and you don’t get it automatically - you have to intentionally opt in, deliberately try to think of the positives. The rewards are great and you don’t need religion to get them. Religion won’t even help in many cases where it’s more fear-based.

AlexB138 8y ago

I think you're very close to right, but not quite. I think what we actually need is something that fills the role religion used to fit into, but that is compatible with the modern world. Religions have too many supernatural elements that attempted to explain the world before we actually had the tools to find real answers. People see that dissonance, and a lot of the social control imposed by religion, become distrustful, and "throw out the baby with the bathwater". It's unfortunate because they then lose a lot of the wonderful underlying messages and meaning religion can give to life. I think a lot of people feel that gap, and that's why you see a lot of the flimsy "spirituality" that is essentially just feel-good notions cobbled together. Eliade talked about this in The sacred and the profane: The nature of religion. People want meaning beyond pleasing themselves, they've just completely lost it in the face of a culture advocating self interest and consumption, and increasing secularism.

libraryatnight 8y ago

The happiest people I know aren't religious, but they have strong personal philosophies born out of healthy relationships and education. We don't need religion, we just need a healthier culture.

Balgair 8y ago

Many commentators in this sub-thread mention that they can't accept the dogmas of a religion, despite acknowledging community and other benefits. For some, the Unitarian Universalist Church may be a good middle-ground: https://www.uua.org/find https://www.uua.org/find Individual congregations vary widely, so finding one near you that fits best may take a few months/weekends. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitarian_Universalism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitarian_Universalism