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Well, for example, the U.S. federal government was designed to cope with that problem: the Senate represents the states equally, regardless of population, and t

Well, for example, the U.S. federal government was designed to cope with that problem: the Senate represents the states equally, regardless of population, and the President is elected by the electoral college, limiting the ability of large population centers to overwhelm the rest of the country. It's not a perfect system, and there will never be one, because humans are humans. But these problems are not new, and people were dealing with them a long time ago. Did the design of the EU not take them into account?

entity345 8y ago
The US Senate and the Presidential election processes are certainly not things to try to copy... They can both lead to anti-democratic results. In fact the Presidential election process was originally designed purposely to avoid giving the people a direct and full say. That being said, the EU already has something similar... the member countries represented equally by their governments.
- AnimalMuppet 8y ago
  You asked for a better alternative to democracy. explainplease supplied one. You complain because it's anti-democratic. That seems somewhat unfair.
- explainplease 8y ago
  Raw democracy can also lead to undesirable results. It's not true that whatever 51% of the population wants is right or good. Do you disagree? > They can both lead to anti-democratic results. In fact the Presidential election process was originally designed purposely to avoid giving the people a direct and full say. That is one way to characterize it. Another way is that the process was designed hundreds of years ago, before electronic communication, air travel, etc. It was not possible for every citizen to see and hear the presidential candidates before an election. So, like the rest of the representative government, citizens delegated their votes to delegates, who would gather in-person, see and hear the candidates, and select one. So do you really think it's truthful to claim that the purpose of the presidential election process was to avoid giving citizens a full say? I feel like you're being intellectually dishonest in this thread.
zaarn 8y ago
> and the President is elected by the electoral college, limiting the ability of large population centers to overwhelm the rest of the country Instead a mere 30% of the US can vote on who is president and the rest doesn't get a say. [The electoral system for voting the president is so weighed that if you were to win the right states, getting about ~30% votes would be sufficient to become president]. The US voting system is broken at best and does not achieve what you think it does.
- explainplease 8y ago
  > Instead a mere 30% of the US can vote on who is president and the rest doesn't get a say. [The electoral system for voting the president is so weighed that if you were to win the right states, getting about ~30% votes would be sufficient to become president]. Has that ever happened? In contrast, with a pure popular vote count, a few metropolitan areas could outvote the entire rest of the country. Would it be fair for NYC and LA to decide against the wishes of the rest of the nation? What do you think about this? > The US voting system is broken at best and does not achieve what you think it does. I said: > limiting the ability of large population centers to overwhelm the rest of the country So what is it that you think that I think it achieves which it actually does not? I feel like you're jumping to conclusions about what I think.
  - zaarn 8y ago
    A few times, even in the last election, the popular vote did not match the election outcome. >In contrast, with a pure popular vote count, a few metropolitan areas could outvote the entire rest of the country. Would it be fair for NYC and LA to decide against the wishes of the rest of the nation? What do you think about this? I think that's totally fair, the federal government should be mainly concerned about issues both affecting those in and outside the city. >So what is it that you think that I think it achieves which it actually does not? I feel like you're jumping to conclusions about what I think. No but I doubt that "limiting the ability of large population centers to overwhelm the rest of the country" is something worthwhile to worry about at federal levels in a federated state.

entity345 8y ago

The US Senate and the Presidential election processes are certainly not things to try to copy... They can both lead to anti-democratic results. In fact the Presidential election process was originally designed purposely to avoid giving the people a direct and full say. That being said, the EU already has something similar... the member countries represented equally by their governments.

AnimalMuppet 8y ago
You asked for a better alternative to democracy. explainplease supplied one. You complain because it's anti-democratic. That seems somewhat unfair.
explainplease 8y ago
Raw democracy can also lead to undesirable results. It's not true that whatever 51% of the population wants is right or good. Do you disagree? > They can both lead to anti-democratic results. In fact the Presidential election process was originally designed purposely to avoid giving the people a direct and full say. That is one way to characterize it. Another way is that the process was designed hundreds of years ago, before electronic communication, air travel, etc. It was not possible for every citizen to see and hear the presidential candidates before an election. So, like the rest of the representative government, citizens delegated their votes to delegates, who would gather in-person, see and hear the candidates, and select one. So do you really think it's truthful to claim that the purpose of the presidential election process was to avoid giving citizens a full say? I feel like you're being intellectually dishonest in this thread.

zaarn 8y ago

> and the President is elected by the electoral college, limiting the ability of large population centers to overwhelm the rest of the country Instead a mere 30% of the US can vote on who is president and the rest doesn't get a say. [The electoral system for voting the president is so weighed that if you were to win the right states, getting about ~30% votes would be sufficient to become president]. The US voting system is broken at best and does not achieve what you think it does.

explainplease 8y ago
> Instead a mere 30% of the US can vote on who is president and the rest doesn't get a say. [The electoral system for voting the president is so weighed that if you were to win the right states, getting about ~30% votes would be sufficient to become president]. Has that ever happened? In contrast, with a pure popular vote count, a few metropolitan areas could outvote the entire rest of the country. Would it be fair for NYC and LA to decide against the wishes of the rest of the nation? What do you think about this? > The US voting system is broken at best and does not achieve what you think it does. I said: > limiting the ability of large population centers to overwhelm the rest of the country So what is it that you think that I think it achieves which it actually does not? I feel like you're jumping to conclusions about what I think.
- zaarn 8y ago
  A few times, even in the last election, the popular vote did not match the election outcome. >In contrast, with a pure popular vote count, a few metropolitan areas could outvote the entire rest of the country. Would it be fair for NYC and LA to decide against the wishes of the rest of the nation? What do you think about this? I think that's totally fair, the federal government should be mainly concerned about issues both affecting those in and outside the city. >So what is it that you think that I think it achieves which it actually does not? I feel like you're jumping to conclusions about what I think. No but I doubt that "limiting the ability of large population centers to overwhelm the rest of the country" is something worthwhile to worry about at federal levels in a federated state.