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I wrote this article and a field guide on China's electric-car boom https://qz.com/guide/electric-cars/ https://qz.com/guide/electric-cars/. Happy to answer any

I wrote this article and a field guide on China's electric-car boom https://qz.com/guide/electric-cars/ https://qz.com/guide/electric-cars/. Happy to answer any questions.

zazen 8y ago
Are these road-legal in the west? If the off-road farm and construction-site applications are the only use-cases, that would seem to rather limit the impact on the market.
- akshatrathi 8y ago
  They will be in the US, because there's supposed to be NHTSA-approved version. Given regulations in Europe, I assume that would be the case too. That means this version has some more safety features than the the base model in China, which could explain why it costs more than 3x outside China.
  - dmix 8y ago
    > which could explain why it costs more than 3x outside China. Yeah, this has to be more than just western-market markup: >> Kaiyun will start selling its “Pickman” electric pickup in the US, Germany, and Italy as soon as next month. The base Chinese model sells for 16,800 yuan ($2,500). The US version will start at $8,950, Fox News reports.
- matthewaveryusa 8y ago
  These I'm not sure, but overall yes they can be street legal: The Renault Twizy -- I've seen them in France and in Cambridge, MA (https://www.bonzer.rocks/ https://www.bonzer.rocks/) They're in use and cost ~10k. Last time I checked you can get a 25mpg and a 50mpg version. While the 25mpg versions are street legal and available now in the US market, I believe the 50mpg version is still only available in europe. https://www.renault.fr/vehicules/vehicules-electriques/twizy.html https://www.renault.fr/vehicules/vehicules-electriques/twizy...
  - zaroth 8y ago
    Mph?
  - thefounder 8y ago
    They are so f ugly. They should be illegal.
    - YetAnotherNick 8y ago
      It falls into the uncanny valley on so many axes.
      - 4ndr3vv 8y ago
        > It falls into the uncanny valley on so many axes. Sorry, think I'm missing something here... How does the Twizy look like a human?
        taneq 8y ago
        'Uncanny valley' is sometimes generalised to mean anything which looks almost, but not quite, the same as something you're familiar with, and is subtly disturbing as a result. An example would be staying in a hotel for a while, then again in a different room that looks identical. (At least, that creeps me out, I start feeling like the room isn't really attached to the rest of the world.)
      - deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
  - seren 8y ago
    The trick with Renault Twizy is that it is not registered as a proper car, but rather as some kind of motorcycle with a roof, so it does not have really stringent safety requirements.
    - rmcpherson 8y ago
      Because it is not a motor vehicle by insurance and Legal standards in the USA it does not require a license or insurance to operate. If you are hit by one of these, you’ll find there’s no insurance to cover you other than your health insurance. Underinsured coverage on your auto policy will not apply either, as it would if you were hit by a motor vehicle. Source: this just happened to me.
- bluGill 8y ago
  Probably, but you better check your exact situation which might be illegal anyway. They are legal in 46 states currently, on streets with a speed limit <= 35mph. Some towns have more restrictive laws as well.
mtw 8y ago
Do you know if they actually make a profit on a $1000 or $9000 price, or they're just dumping their products on the market, like they did for solar panels?
- akshatrathi 8y ago
  I don't for certain. In my trip to China, I couldn't meet makers of LSEVs. What I do know is that there are no subsidies in that market, which means carmakers won't survive if they don't make a profit. But it's a good question whether they are making that profit at the cost of human lives (no crash protection) or the environment (lead-acid batteries).
  - justtopost 8y ago
    There is honestly little/no question there as to production methods and their human and environmental impact.
  - nordsieck 8y ago
    > But it's a good question whether they are making that profit at the cost of human lives (no crash protection) To the extent that the cars are replacing scooters, they are an unmitigated benefit, safety wise.
    - TulliusCicero 8y ago
      Not true. Going from cars to scooters is safety-positive for those passengers, and safety-negative for everyone outside that car, particularly those who are not themselves in a car.
      - rmcpherson 8y ago
        Exactly. This just happened to me when I was struck by a moped in a near-fatal crash. Because it is not a motor vehicle by insurance and Legal standards in the USA it does not require a license or insurance to operate. If you are hit by one of these, you’ll find there’s no insurance to cover you other than your health insurance. Underinsured coverage on your auto policy will not apply either, as it would if you were hit by a motor vehicle.
raws 8y ago
Thank you for populating your articles with graphs and sources at qz, that makes it one of my favorite source of information!
- akshatrathi 8y ago
  It also happens to be my favorite thing about writing Qz articles. :)
sydli 8y ago
I saw that you also wrote about how these cars phone home real-time analytics data to the manufacturers and Chinese government: https://qz.com/1490376/chinas-electric-cars-are-government-spies/ https://qz.com/1490376/chinas-electric-cars-are-government-s... Has there been any word whether the international versions also provide "analytics" for its drivers? Thank you for these articles!

I wrote this article and a field guide on China's electric-car boom https://qz.com/guide/electric-cars/ https://qz.com/guide/electric-cars/. Happy to answer any questions.

zazen 8y ago

Are these road-legal in the west? If the off-road farm and construction-site applications are the only use-cases, that would seem to rather limit the impact on the market.

akshatrathi 8y ago
They will be in the US, because there's supposed to be NHTSA-approved version. Given regulations in Europe, I assume that would be the case too. That means this version has some more safety features than the the base model in China, which could explain why it costs more than 3x outside China.
- dmix 8y ago
  > which could explain why it costs more than 3x outside China. Yeah, this has to be more than just western-market markup: >> Kaiyun will start selling its “Pickman” electric pickup in the US, Germany, and Italy as soon as next month. The base Chinese model sells for 16,800 yuan ($2,500). The US version will start at $8,950, Fox News reports.
matthewaveryusa 8y ago
These I'm not sure, but overall yes they can be street legal: The Renault Twizy -- I've seen them in France and in Cambridge, MA (https://www.bonzer.rocks/ https://www.bonzer.rocks/) They're in use and cost ~10k. Last time I checked you can get a 25mpg and a 50mpg version. While the 25mpg versions are street legal and available now in the US market, I believe the 50mpg version is still only available in europe. https://www.renault.fr/vehicules/vehicules-electriques/twizy.html https://www.renault.fr/vehicules/vehicules-electriques/twizy...
- zaroth 8y ago
  Mph?
- thefounder 8y ago
  They are so f ugly. They should be illegal.
  - YetAnotherNick 8y ago
    It falls into the uncanny valley on so many axes.
    - 4ndr3vv 8y ago
      > It falls into the uncanny valley on so many axes. Sorry, think I'm missing something here... How does the Twizy look like a human?
      - taneq 8y ago
        'Uncanny valley' is sometimes generalised to mean anything which looks almost, but not quite, the same as something you're familiar with, and is subtly disturbing as a result. An example would be staying in a hotel for a while, then again in a different room that looks identical. (At least, that creeps me out, I start feeling like the room isn't really attached to the rest of the world.)
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
- seren 8y ago
  The trick with Renault Twizy is that it is not registered as a proper car, but rather as some kind of motorcycle with a roof, so it does not have really stringent safety requirements.
  - rmcpherson 8y ago
    Because it is not a motor vehicle by insurance and Legal standards in the USA it does not require a license or insurance to operate. If you are hit by one of these, you’ll find there’s no insurance to cover you other than your health insurance. Underinsured coverage on your auto policy will not apply either, as it would if you were hit by a motor vehicle. Source: this just happened to me.
bluGill 8y ago
Probably, but you better check your exact situation which might be illegal anyway. They are legal in 46 states currently, on streets with a speed limit <= 35mph. Some towns have more restrictive laws as well.

mtw 8y ago

Do you know if they actually make a profit on a $1000 or $9000 price, or they're just dumping their products on the market, like they did for solar panels?

akshatrathi 8y ago
I don't for certain. In my trip to China, I couldn't meet makers of LSEVs. What I do know is that there are no subsidies in that market, which means carmakers won't survive if they don't make a profit. But it's a good question whether they are making that profit at the cost of human lives (no crash protection) or the environment (lead-acid batteries).
- justtopost 8y ago
  There is honestly little/no question there as to production methods and their human and environmental impact.
- nordsieck 8y ago
  > But it's a good question whether they are making that profit at the cost of human lives (no crash protection) To the extent that the cars are replacing scooters, they are an unmitigated benefit, safety wise.
  - TulliusCicero 8y ago
    Not true. Going from cars to scooters is safety-positive for those passengers, and safety-negative for everyone outside that car, particularly those who are not themselves in a car.
    - rmcpherson 8y ago
      Exactly. This just happened to me when I was struck by a moped in a near-fatal crash. Because it is not a motor vehicle by insurance and Legal standards in the USA it does not require a license or insurance to operate. If you are hit by one of these, you’ll find there’s no insurance to cover you other than your health insurance. Underinsured coverage on your auto policy will not apply either, as it would if you were hit by a motor vehicle.

raws 8y ago

Thank you for populating your articles with graphs and sources at qz, that makes it one of my favorite source of information!

akshatrathi 8y ago
It also happens to be my favorite thing about writing Qz articles. :)

sydli 8y ago

I saw that you also wrote about how these cars phone home real-time analytics data to the manufacturers and Chinese government: https://qz.com/1490376/chinas-electric-cars-are-government-spies/ https://qz.com/1490376/chinas-electric-cars-are-government-s... Has there been any word whether the international versions also provide "analytics" for its drivers? Thank you for these articles!