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This has to be BS. Ericsson's gear works, Nokia's gear works. Both of those are in use, in prod in Canada right now (for Rogers) as far as I know. And as for

This has to be BS. Ericsson's gear works, Nokia's gear works. Both of those are in use, in prod in Canada right now (for Rogers) as far as I know. And as for it being "cheap" - let's be real - There's a reason why it's cheap - It's state sponsored. This entire article is probably sponsored by China. EDIT: I'm extra salty because of the fall of Nortel - which can easily be attributed to Huawei.

interactivecode 8y ago
aren't all big telco's state sponsored is a multitude of ways? either by direct funds, tax breaks, support or expensive state contracts that the states have to use because there aren't any alternatives?
- dragontamer 8y ago
  There's a different level with Chinese corporations. Remember that China is a single-party system. You're either with the party, or you're not. In other countries, there are two (or more) major political parties to be aligned to. Any corporation that tilts towards one political group will lose power when the other groups come into office. Ex: Farming corporations tend to be aligned with Republicans. Environmental corporations tend to be aligned with Democrats. While they get benefits when their party is in power, its hard to keep the subsidies going when the opposition enters. That's not true of China. If you're with "The Party", then you get all the benefits of being with the party all the time.
  - ASalazarMX 8y ago
    > Any corporation that tilts towards one political group will lose power when the other groups come into office That's why smart corporations sponsor government positions instead of specific politicians.
  - HillaryBriss 8y ago
    > Any corporation that tilts towards one political group will lose power when the other groups come into office not if they simply shift their campaign donations to the other groups. federal level politicians spend a huge fraction of their time constantly and aggressively looking for campaign cash.
    - dragontamer 8y ago
      Indeed. But that kind of shorter-term quid-pro-quo is less corrupt than the depths of a single-party alignment over the course of decades.
- ASalazarMX 8y ago
  Big telcos tend to get in bed with governments because they're a strategic intelligence source. Since companies can be gagged, no one knows for sure how much in bed they are. Choose as if choosing which government you want to spy on you.
- foolfoolz 8y ago
  any sufficiently large corporation is state sponsored yes. the original “too big to fail”. but telcos like ATT, Verizon, are more sponsored than telco appliance manufacturers.
- kev009 8y ago
  That is fairly accurate.. the story of The Bell System is pretty interesting if not totally bizarre. Things are a bit more capitalist these days since most transport is IP and the commercial IT sector drives most development there, but cell networks are still largely the product of a handful of companies as PSTN switching and interface equipment were.
chrisfinazzo 8y ago
Like recent BS Bloomberg stories about evesdropping on iCloud servers, I find it highly suspect that their stuff actually works - even in a nefarious way. They're Chinese, end of story. If it's true, they had help from somewhere.
- close04 8y ago
  And it's well known all Chinese do it steal, right? At least have the decency to start the comment with "I'm not trying to be racist/xenophobic/a-hole/etc." before being one.
  - chrisfinazzo 8y ago
    Not trying to be, but their pattern of behavior suggests otherwise. More often than not, the approach they take is, 'Can we do this? Great! Worry about ethics/legality later - if at all. For whatever reason, culturally they see no problem with this. (See also the recent uproar over gene editing embryos) Beyond that, I also question (again) if the Chinese are smart and/or evil enough to do this on their own, knowing they will likely eventually get caught if something does come out.
    - close04 8y ago
      I'm not trying to insult you but you just generically applied to 1.4 billion people a conclusion based on a data set so small even you can make use of. No matter what country or a people you belong to someone can find something about them that will "make you proud" and which surely applies because I already have one data point showing it. And just because you were curious how empires are built but not enough to actually go beyond bigotry, here's an example: [0]. Spoiler alert, it's stealing from the current leaders. [0] https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/how-industrial-espionage-started-americas-cotton-revolution-180967608/ https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/how-industrial-esp...
rayiner 8y ago
That and they free ride on the R&D of other companies. I was talking to an engineer at Ciscoper years ago, who mentioned that they copied a router design down to the English silk screened assembly instructions in the PCBs.
- sct202 8y ago
  With all the layoffs across the telecom equipment industry, Huawei should be able to get a ton of highly qualified/knowledgeable engineers in Europe, Japan and the US full of trade secrets.
  - jwist 8y ago
    Why bother when they can just steal the information?
fxfan 8y ago
As my friends in India tell me- China is very good at sponsoring stories. They don't pay the newspaper- they pay the journalist. Unlike IBM of old (and apple of new) where newspapers are/were rewarded with ads, China rewards journalists, usually in kind so as to avoid all suspicion.
- newyankee 8y ago
  In this debate of Huawei vs. rest , i feel both the parties have valid assertions. Although the Chinese online propaganda army is strong. Just the other day as i was watching a video about a bridge being constructed in India, the top rated Youtube comment was a snarky remark suggesting that India talks first, builds later while it is opposite for China.A host of similar comments made an otherwise fine video undigestible. Welcome to the post truth era.
52-6F-62 8y ago
> Ericsson's gear works, Nokia's gear works. > Both of those are in use, in prod in Canada right now (for Rogers) as far as I know. Can confirm— Rogers at the very least is going with Ericsson for their coming 5G network. Don't believe they use any Huawei. Bell and Telus, do, however—AFAIK
throwaway-nok 8y ago
Nokia works - good joke ;-) disclaimer - I work in that circus. Huawei is far more technologically advanced than Nokia and E///. Their stuff is cheap and well thought. Let's take massive-MIMO (it's key for 5G)- Nokia is about 5 years behind Hua, E/// is at least year behind Hua. Nokia HW for 5G baseband costs several times more than Hua equivalent. Huawei has nothing to learn from Nokia - beside how not to do stuff ;-) USA is pissed off on Huawei because every telco vendor tied to US failed miserably - Motorola & ALU. They have nothing and must rely on E/// & Nokia on their strategic infra. US operators have no options than take E/// and NOK - they are not in position to negotiate prices because you need to have at least 2 telco vendors.

interactivecode 8y ago

aren't all big telco's state sponsored is a multitude of ways? either by direct funds, tax breaks, support or expensive state contracts that the states have to use because there aren't any alternatives?

dragontamer 8y ago
There's a different level with Chinese corporations. Remember that China is a single-party system. You're either with the party, or you're not. In other countries, there are two (or more) major political parties to be aligned to. Any corporation that tilts towards one political group will lose power when the other groups come into office. Ex: Farming corporations tend to be aligned with Republicans. Environmental corporations tend to be aligned with Democrats. While they get benefits when their party is in power, its hard to keep the subsidies going when the opposition enters. That's not true of China. If you're with "The Party", then you get all the benefits of being with the party all the time.
- ASalazarMX 8y ago
  > Any corporation that tilts towards one political group will lose power when the other groups come into office That's why smart corporations sponsor government positions instead of specific politicians.
- HillaryBriss 8y ago
  > Any corporation that tilts towards one political group will lose power when the other groups come into office not if they simply shift their campaign donations to the other groups. federal level politicians spend a huge fraction of their time constantly and aggressively looking for campaign cash.
  - dragontamer 8y ago
    Indeed. But that kind of shorter-term quid-pro-quo is less corrupt than the depths of a single-party alignment over the course of decades.
ASalazarMX 8y ago
Big telcos tend to get in bed with governments because they're a strategic intelligence source. Since companies can be gagged, no one knows for sure how much in bed they are. Choose as if choosing which government you want to spy on you.
foolfoolz 8y ago
any sufficiently large corporation is state sponsored yes. the original “too big to fail”. but telcos like ATT, Verizon, are more sponsored than telco appliance manufacturers.
kev009 8y ago
That is fairly accurate.. the story of The Bell System is pretty interesting if not totally bizarre. Things are a bit more capitalist these days since most transport is IP and the commercial IT sector drives most development there, but cell networks are still largely the product of a handful of companies as PSTN switching and interface equipment were.

chrisfinazzo 8y ago

Like recent BS Bloomberg stories about evesdropping on iCloud servers, I find it highly suspect that their stuff actually works - even in a nefarious way. They're Chinese, end of story. If it's true, they had help from somewhere.

close04 8y ago
And it's well known all Chinese do it steal, right? At least have the decency to start the comment with "I'm not trying to be racist/xenophobic/a-hole/etc." before being one.
- chrisfinazzo 8y ago
  Not trying to be, but their pattern of behavior suggests otherwise. More often than not, the approach they take is, 'Can we do this? Great! Worry about ethics/legality later - if at all. For whatever reason, culturally they see no problem with this. (See also the recent uproar over gene editing embryos) Beyond that, I also question (again) if the Chinese are smart and/or evil enough to do this on their own, knowing they will likely eventually get caught if something does come out.
  - close04 8y ago
    I'm not trying to insult you but you just generically applied to 1.4 billion people a conclusion based on a data set so small even you can make use of. No matter what country or a people you belong to someone can find something about them that will "make you proud" and which surely applies because I already have one data point showing it. And just because you were curious how empires are built but not enough to actually go beyond bigotry, here's an example: [0]. Spoiler alert, it's stealing from the current leaders. [0] https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/how-industrial-espionage-started-americas-cotton-revolution-180967608/ https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/how-industrial-esp...

rayiner 8y ago

That and they free ride on the R&D of other companies. I was talking to an engineer at Ciscoper years ago, who mentioned that they copied a router design down to the English silk screened assembly instructions in the PCBs.

sct202 8y ago
With all the layoffs across the telecom equipment industry, Huawei should be able to get a ton of highly qualified/knowledgeable engineers in Europe, Japan and the US full of trade secrets.
- jwist 8y ago
  Why bother when they can just steal the information?

fxfan 8y ago

As my friends in India tell me- China is very good at sponsoring stories. They don't pay the newspaper- they pay the journalist. Unlike IBM of old (and apple of new) where newspapers are/were rewarded with ads, China rewards journalists, usually in kind so as to avoid all suspicion.

newyankee 8y ago
In this debate of Huawei vs. rest , i feel both the parties have valid assertions. Although the Chinese online propaganda army is strong. Just the other day as i was watching a video about a bridge being constructed in India, the top rated Youtube comment was a snarky remark suggesting that India talks first, builds later while it is opposite for China.A host of similar comments made an otherwise fine video undigestible. Welcome to the post truth era.

52-6F-62 8y ago

> Ericsson's gear works, Nokia's gear works. > Both of those are in use, in prod in Canada right now (for Rogers) as far as I know. Can confirm— Rogers at the very least is going with Ericsson for their coming 5G network. Don't believe they use any Huawei. Bell and Telus, do, however—AFAIK

throwaway-nok 8y ago

Nokia works - good joke ;-) disclaimer - I work in that circus. Huawei is far more technologically advanced than Nokia and E///. Their stuff is cheap and well thought. Let's take massive-MIMO (it's key for 5G)- Nokia is about 5 years behind Hua, E/// is at least year behind Hua. Nokia HW for 5G baseband costs several times more than Hua equivalent. Huawei has nothing to learn from Nokia - beside how not to do stuff ;-) USA is pissed off on Huawei because every telco vendor tied to US failed miserably - Motorola & ALU. They have nothing and must rely on E/// & Nokia on their strategic infra. US operators have no options than take E/// and NOK - they are not in position to negotiate prices because you need to have at least 2 telco vendors.