6 ms·

I do use Chrome. I know my data stays with Google and won't be siphoned to a third party that I don't know. I don't trust Google much but I trust them more than

by jqt 8y ago

I do use Chrome. I know my data stays with Google and won't be siphoned to a third party that I don't know. I don't trust Google much but I trust them more than I trust a random third party, "better the devil you know than the devil you don't"

bayindirh 8y ago
> I know my data stays with Google and won't be siphoned to a third party that I don't know. How can you be so sure about that?
- jqt 8y ago
  I can't in the same way I can't be sure the Mozilla Corporation isn't pulling another Cliqz on me. So what's your point?
  - close04 8y ago
    The point you made is (simplified) "Chrome is better than Firefox for privacy". Yet you brought nothing to support this beyond "the devil you know is better". Especially since Google is heavily relying on marketing your data to the point where they gather it covertly or force users into privacy breaking situations. Common sense would lead anyone to assume they don't collect it just to flip bits on a storage device. Just when you thought you knew the devil. Knowing this guess you'll drop Chrome now, right? [0]-[over 9000] So tell me about this devil you know and how exactly knowing all that still pushes you to believe it's the better option? [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18042802 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18042802 [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17942252 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17942252 [3] https://mashable.com/article/google-chrome-69-forced-login/?europe=true#x3cJQ0apvaqo https://mashable.com/article/google-chrome-69-forced-login/?... [4] https://gizmodo.com/google-stores-location-data-even-with-location-history-1828300883 https://gizmodo.com/google-stores-location-data-even-with-lo... [5] https://mashable.com/article/google-android-data-collection-study/?europe=true#4FdC_NSYUOqh https://mashable.com/article/google-android-data-collection-... [6] i can go on but I'm pretty sure a modicum of good will from your side would be enough to get the point.
    - jqt 8y ago
      I know very well the shortcomings of Chrome (4 and 5 are not Chrome) and I still choose Chrome. I know what Chrome has done in the past, and I also know what Firefox has done in the past, and I still choose Chrome. You show how Chrome 1) hides www and how 2) logging in, which I don't do, logs you into the browser. On the other hand look at what Firefox has done: -> Sent user data, including all visited URLs, to a third party advertising company, without asking the user: https://www.zdnet.com/article/firefox-tests-cliqz-engine-which-slurps-user-browsing-data/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/firefox-tests-cliqz-engine-whi... "Users who receive a version of Firefox with Cliqz will have their browsing activity sent to Cliqz servers, including the URLs of pages they visit," -> Installed an addon without permission in my browser to promote a TV show: https://techcrunch.com/2017/12/15/mozillas-mr-robot-promo-backfires-after-it-installs-firefox-extension-without-permission/ https://techcrunch.com/2017/12/15/mozillas-mr-robot-promo-ba... -> (Currently) shows ads in the new tab page by default (this is currently still going on): https://www.cnet.com/news/mozilla-tries-ads-in-firefox-again-now-powered-by-pocket-website-recommendations/ https://www.cnet.com/news/mozilla-tries-ads-in-firefox-again... -> Showed ads in the new tab page, even after you disabled the option to receive ads: https://www.neowin.net/news/firefox-640-is-now-showing-a-bookingcom-ad-in-the-new-tab-page/ https://www.neowin.net/news/firefox-640-is-now-showing-a-boo... -> Sent data to a third company about what users do with Firefox Focus, which is supposedly a privacy-focused browser: https://www.ghacks.net/2017/02/12/firefox-focus-privacy-scandal/ https://www.ghacks.net/2017/02/12/firefox-focus-privacy-scan... And the list goes on... So yes, fuck Mozilla, they can burn.
      - close04 8y ago
        > 4 and 5 are not Chrome Ok... I'd read it for you but that's not how it works. So here it is in nuggets: > "Both Android and Chrome send data to Google even in the absence of any user interaction," the study finds. "Our experiments show that a dormant, stationary Android phone (with Chrome active in the background) communicated location information to Google 340 times during a 24-hour period, or at an average of 14 data communications per hour." > So yes, fuck Mozilla, they can burn. Ah, ok, I was waiting for you to change the narrative from "Mozilla bad, Google good" to "I have no argument, I just don't like Mozilla". And don't get me wrong, you have every right to like whatever you want. Just don't pretend you have valid objective arguments.
- tguedes 8y ago
  You can't. But Google is an ad company and an ad company does not just give away their most valuable resource, the data. So it's more about the devil you know then the devil you don't know.
  - bayindirh 8y ago
    An ad company can sold your data in various forms and formats. Maybe it won't sell your raw data, but will sell you nevertheless. Even if it doesn't sell your data, it can use your data to make their ads more efficient for you and people similar to you. While that's their business model, they are borderline abusing you in the process. This not something I'm comfortable with.
  - close04 8y ago
    > and an ad company does not just give away their most valuable resource Correct. They sell it for money. How exactly is that better at keeping your private data private? Google's power doesn't reside in the fact that it keeps your data private but in the fact that they have a constant flow of up to date data. When you hand over data to a company whose revenue (also) officially comes from monetizing it your privacy is forfeited.
  - craftinator 8y ago
    They sell recordings of your activity for money, and you don't even get a cut. No royalties, no nothing. So they are profiting from your actions, without paying you. Bit unethical right? I generally consider my time valuable enough to sell it, and my actions even more so.
Nasrudith 8y ago
I think it is more a "better the mobster with a vacation home in town" essentially - while a bad actor's interests are aligned. They may still screw you over but if they are greedy ironically on your side.

by jqt 8y ago

bayindirh 8y ago

> I know my data stays with Google and won't be siphoned to a third party that I don't know. How can you be so sure about that?

jqt 8y ago
I can't in the same way I can't be sure the Mozilla Corporation isn't pulling another Cliqz on me. So what's your point?
- close04 8y ago
  The point you made is (simplified) "Chrome is better than Firefox for privacy". Yet you brought nothing to support this beyond "the devil you know is better". Especially since Google is heavily relying on marketing your data to the point where they gather it covertly or force users into privacy breaking situations. Common sense would lead anyone to assume they don't collect it just to flip bits on a storage device. Just when you thought you knew the devil. Knowing this guess you'll drop Chrome now, right? [0]-[over 9000] So tell me about this devil you know and how exactly knowing all that still pushes you to believe it's the better option? [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18042802 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18042802 [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17942252 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17942252 [3] https://mashable.com/article/google-chrome-69-forced-login/?europe=true#x3cJQ0apvaqo https://mashable.com/article/google-chrome-69-forced-login/?... [4] https://gizmodo.com/google-stores-location-data-even-with-location-history-1828300883 https://gizmodo.com/google-stores-location-data-even-with-lo... [5] https://mashable.com/article/google-android-data-collection-study/?europe=true#4FdC_NSYUOqh https://mashable.com/article/google-android-data-collection-... [6] i can go on but I'm pretty sure a modicum of good will from your side would be enough to get the point.
  - jqt 8y ago
    I know very well the shortcomings of Chrome (4 and 5 are not Chrome) and I still choose Chrome. I know what Chrome has done in the past, and I also know what Firefox has done in the past, and I still choose Chrome. You show how Chrome 1) hides www and how 2) logging in, which I don't do, logs you into the browser. On the other hand look at what Firefox has done: -> Sent user data, including all visited URLs, to a third party advertising company, without asking the user: https://www.zdnet.com/article/firefox-tests-cliqz-engine-which-slurps-user-browsing-data/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/firefox-tests-cliqz-engine-whi... "Users who receive a version of Firefox with Cliqz will have their browsing activity sent to Cliqz servers, including the URLs of pages they visit," -> Installed an addon without permission in my browser to promote a TV show: https://techcrunch.com/2017/12/15/mozillas-mr-robot-promo-backfires-after-it-installs-firefox-extension-without-permission/ https://techcrunch.com/2017/12/15/mozillas-mr-robot-promo-ba... -> (Currently) shows ads in the new tab page by default (this is currently still going on): https://www.cnet.com/news/mozilla-tries-ads-in-firefox-again-now-powered-by-pocket-website-recommendations/ https://www.cnet.com/news/mozilla-tries-ads-in-firefox-again... -> Showed ads in the new tab page, even after you disabled the option to receive ads: https://www.neowin.net/news/firefox-640-is-now-showing-a-bookingcom-ad-in-the-new-tab-page/ https://www.neowin.net/news/firefox-640-is-now-showing-a-boo... -> Sent data to a third company about what users do with Firefox Focus, which is supposedly a privacy-focused browser: https://www.ghacks.net/2017/02/12/firefox-focus-privacy-scandal/ https://www.ghacks.net/2017/02/12/firefox-focus-privacy-scan... And the list goes on... So yes, fuck Mozilla, they can burn.
    - close04 8y ago
      > 4 and 5 are not Chrome Ok... I'd read it for you but that's not how it works. So here it is in nuggets: > "Both Android and Chrome send data to Google even in the absence of any user interaction," the study finds. "Our experiments show that a dormant, stationary Android phone (with Chrome active in the background) communicated location information to Google 340 times during a 24-hour period, or at an average of 14 data communications per hour." > So yes, fuck Mozilla, they can burn. Ah, ok, I was waiting for you to change the narrative from "Mozilla bad, Google good" to "I have no argument, I just don't like Mozilla". And don't get me wrong, you have every right to like whatever you want. Just don't pretend you have valid objective arguments.
tguedes 8y ago
You can't. But Google is an ad company and an ad company does not just give away their most valuable resource, the data. So it's more about the devil you know then the devil you don't know.
- bayindirh 8y ago
  An ad company can sold your data in various forms and formats. Maybe it won't sell your raw data, but will sell you nevertheless. Even if it doesn't sell your data, it can use your data to make their ads more efficient for you and people similar to you. While that's their business model, they are borderline abusing you in the process. This not something I'm comfortable with.
- close04 8y ago
  > and an ad company does not just give away their most valuable resource Correct. They sell it for money. How exactly is that better at keeping your private data private? Google's power doesn't reside in the fact that it keeps your data private but in the fact that they have a constant flow of up to date data. When you hand over data to a company whose revenue (also) officially comes from monetizing it your privacy is forfeited.
- craftinator 8y ago
  They sell recordings of your activity for money, and you don't even get a cut. No royalties, no nothing. So they are profiting from your actions, without paying you. Bit unethical right? I generally consider my time valuable enough to sell it, and my actions even more so.

Nasrudith 8y ago

I think it is more a "better the mobster with a vacation home in town" essentially - while a bad actor's interests are aligned. They may still screw you over but if they are greedy ironically on your side.