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> I'd say data is more valuable than oil. None of the social network companies sell user data. They sell ad placement, and use user data to target the ad audie

> I'd say data is more valuable than oil. None of the social network companies sell user data. They sell ad placement, and use user data to target the ad audience. Selling ads is not selling data. When I think of selling data I think of companies that actually sell data. Equifax or MaxMind, for example. Oil and gas drilling alone are 2-3% of world GDP, which comes to about $2 trillion dollars. Facebook and Google make about $100 billion in combined ad revenue. I think it’s safe to say oil is probably 10x more valuable than social network advertising. > Data breeches are the new oil spills Comparing credit card fraud with ecological pollution and death?

astazangasta 8y ago
They are certainly monetizing data, even if they are not commodifying it. In addition there are many other streams of data being accumulated and monetized besides Facebook and Google (e.g. your supermarket value card and its ilk).
- simplecomplex 8y ago
  They monetize by selling ad placement. Advertisers get to choose who sees the ad based on segmenting the audience with user data. In no way does Facebook or Google package private data and sell it. Which is exactly what “sells user data” is meant to imply.
Piedmontese 8y ago
> None of the social network companies sell user data. Twitter does [0] and it's worth noting that fb has considered it [1]. I think it's fair to say this may be more and more attractive as the industry matures and new avenues for marketing data emerge. [0] https://www.marketwatch.com/story/twitter-earnings-growth-relied-on-selling-user-data-2018-04-25 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/twitter-earnings-growth-re... [1] https://www.theverge.com/2018/11/29/18117582/facebook-six4three-internal-documents-emails-selling-user-data https://www.theverge.com/2018/11/29/18117582/facebook-six4th...
- simplecomplex 8y ago
  AFAIK all the information they sell is already available on the public web.
  - logifail 8y ago
    "Available on the public web" does not mean "freely accessible", otherwise you'd be able to scrape - or simply download - without getting blocked for ToS/AUP violations.
bilbo0s 8y ago
I don't think they meant that LITERALLY data is as important as oil. Obviously ALL economic activity is predicated on energy. (Oil or otherwise.) But data is still extremely important. I think it might be more analogous to say that data has become as important as finance. Without finance a lot of things grind to a halt. Without data, I'd argue, a lot of things would grind to a halt. (Maybe even more things would grind to a halt than if finance disappeared?) But yes, without oil, (or, even better, without energy in general), everything grinds to a halt. It all stops.
40acres 8y ago
You're taking a much narrower view than what I was going for in my comment. I never mentioned companies selling data and I never mentioned ad revenue either. Data on its own is not that valuable, but it's a crucial commodity that when monetized generates value that I'd say are more valuable than oil. Companies are using data to optimize supply chains, reducing spending, generating value. Others are using data to recommend you products that you're more likely to buy, increasing profit, generating value. High quality data is the ultimate commodity, the insights derived from it can lead to much more value than oil, that's the main point of my comment.
mbesto 8y ago
> Comparing credit card fraud with ecological pollution and death? It's an analogy, precisely because the general populace still doesn't understand how drastic the impact a data breach is, but they sure do understand what a duck looks like full of tar. Depending on what type of data breach it is (credit card, social, healthcare, etc) then yes the implications can be potentially dire. Extreme, but plausible examples of "yes this means death and polluted environments too": - Ransomware in a healthcare IT system that doesn't allow doctors to view patients data if they don't pay the crypto ransom - Credit availability to someone paying for healthcare or some other life altering purchase but can't because their identity was stolen or credit score was impacted. Not to mention the emotional distress caused by bankruptcy (undue). - Civil unrest resulting from data breaches used for manipulation/propaganda targeting reasons (see -> Brexit and 2016 presidential election)
- simplecomplex 8y ago
  An election is not civil unrest.

astazangasta 8y ago

They are certainly monetizing data, even if they are not commodifying it. In addition there are many other streams of data being accumulated and monetized besides Facebook and Google (e.g. your supermarket value card and its ilk).

simplecomplex 8y ago
They monetize by selling ad placement. Advertisers get to choose who sees the ad based on segmenting the audience with user data. In no way does Facebook or Google package private data and sell it. Which is exactly what “sells user data” is meant to imply.

Piedmontese 8y ago

> None of the social network companies sell user data. Twitter does [0] and it's worth noting that fb has considered it [1]. I think it's fair to say this may be more and more attractive as the industry matures and new avenues for marketing data emerge. [0] https://www.marketwatch.com/story/twitter-earnings-growth-relied-on-selling-user-data-2018-04-25 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/twitter-earnings-growth-re... [1] https://www.theverge.com/2018/11/29/18117582/facebook-six4three-internal-documents-emails-selling-user-data https://www.theverge.com/2018/11/29/18117582/facebook-six4th...

simplecomplex 8y ago
AFAIK all the information they sell is already available on the public web.
- logifail 8y ago
  "Available on the public web" does not mean "freely accessible", otherwise you'd be able to scrape - or simply download - without getting blocked for ToS/AUP violations.

bilbo0s 8y ago

I don't think they meant that LITERALLY data is as important as oil. Obviously ALL economic activity is predicated on energy. (Oil or otherwise.) But data is still extremely important. I think it might be more analogous to say that data has become as important as finance. Without finance a lot of things grind to a halt. Without data, I'd argue, a lot of things would grind to a halt. (Maybe even more things would grind to a halt than if finance disappeared?) But yes, without oil, (or, even better, without energy in general), everything grinds to a halt. It all stops.

40acres 8y ago

You're taking a much narrower view than what I was going for in my comment. I never mentioned companies selling data and I never mentioned ad revenue either. Data on its own is not that valuable, but it's a crucial commodity that when monetized generates value that I'd say are more valuable than oil. Companies are using data to optimize supply chains, reducing spending, generating value. Others are using data to recommend you products that you're more likely to buy, increasing profit, generating value. High quality data is the ultimate commodity, the insights derived from it can lead to much more value than oil, that's the main point of my comment.

mbesto 8y ago

> Comparing credit card fraud with ecological pollution and death? It's an analogy, precisely because the general populace still doesn't understand how drastic the impact a data breach is, but they sure do understand what a duck looks like full of tar. Depending on what type of data breach it is (credit card, social, healthcare, etc) then yes the implications can be potentially dire. Extreme, but plausible examples of "yes this means death and polluted environments too": - Ransomware in a healthcare IT system that doesn't allow doctors to view patients data if they don't pay the crypto ransom - Credit availability to someone paying for healthcare or some other life altering purchase but can't because their identity was stolen or credit score was impacted. Not to mention the emotional distress caused by bankruptcy (undue). - Civil unrest resulting from data breaches used for manipulation/propaganda targeting reasons (see -> Brexit and 2016 presidential election)

simplecomplex 8y ago
An election is not civil unrest.