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Relatively undergeneralized as the entirety of the internet's traffic is collected by various agencies, and singling out the NSA seems rather hamfisted.

Nasrudith 8y ago
Tor is in their demense so critcism is always relevant - dismissal on those grounds is whataboutism. It would be like dismissing DES S-box tampering or Elliptical Curve insecurity with "there are plenty of insecure algorithm mistakes no big deal!". It brings to mind how answering strongly agree on "Everyone steals" on a company screening personality test is a quick ticket to get blacklisted.
- superobserver 8y ago
  I didn't justify the NSA nor 'dismiss', I said everyone does it, so singling them out in particular is dishonest. Furthermore, it is their mandate to do what they do; ask yourself: which agencies exist that have attempted to extend beyond the scope of theirs? This is a serious concern, esp. in diplomatic relations.
  - Nasrudith 8y ago
    Well they were responsible for Tor that makes it germane - that was what I met by being in their domain. It is always perfectly fair to throw shade on them for their project based on their past actions. The NSA really shouldn't be bringing up their mandate given how they have persistently undermined their own nation's security for the sake of snooping. And it is one of the most economically dependent upon it no less and needs the advanced economy to power its supremacy. It is so stupid one needs to invent elaborate and absurd fantasies to remotely justify it. It still stinks of whataboutism to complain of dishonesty - not refuting the truth or justifying it as right but deflecting it and crying foul. Everyone is doing it is a poor excuse for juvenile delinquency and a worse one for agencies of world powers.
mimixco 8y ago
There are three points here: First, Tor was and continues to be funded by the NSA, among other government agencies. Second, the NSA created Tor for themselves to protect their own agents. Third, by operating Tor exit nodes, they are able to spy on other people's traffic, hence a honeypot.
- superobserver 8y ago
  >among other government agencies. That's my point. And I'm suggesting going a step further to non-domestic agencies. Nowhere do I suggest the point in the article is false. I merely suggest it is closer to cherrypicking as others are obviously neglected. Does the FBI come to mind at all, for instance?
  - mimixco 8y ago
    The thrust of this is not to name which agencies use Tor to spy on you, but to point out the fact that the entire Tor system was developed by the government and is probably a big honeypot. Who cares what TLA-named agency is using it this week? The point is that it's not the security panacea it's made out to be by tech libertarians.

Nasrudith 8y ago

Tor is in their demense so critcism is always relevant - dismissal on those grounds is whataboutism. It would be like dismissing DES S-box tampering or Elliptical Curve insecurity with "there are plenty of insecure algorithm mistakes no big deal!". It brings to mind how answering strongly agree on "Everyone steals" on a company screening personality test is a quick ticket to get blacklisted.

superobserver 8y ago
I didn't justify the NSA nor 'dismiss', I said everyone does it, so singling them out in particular is dishonest. Furthermore, it is their mandate to do what they do; ask yourself: which agencies exist that have attempted to extend beyond the scope of theirs? This is a serious concern, esp. in diplomatic relations.
- Nasrudith 8y ago
  Well they were responsible for Tor that makes it germane - that was what I met by being in their domain. It is always perfectly fair to throw shade on them for their project based on their past actions. The NSA really shouldn't be bringing up their mandate given how they have persistently undermined their own nation's security for the sake of snooping. And it is one of the most economically dependent upon it no less and needs the advanced economy to power its supremacy. It is so stupid one needs to invent elaborate and absurd fantasies to remotely justify it. It still stinks of whataboutism to complain of dishonesty - not refuting the truth or justifying it as right but deflecting it and crying foul. Everyone is doing it is a poor excuse for juvenile delinquency and a worse one for agencies of world powers.

mimixco 8y ago

There are three points here: First, Tor was and continues to be funded by the NSA, among other government agencies. Second, the NSA created Tor for themselves to protect their own agents. Third, by operating Tor exit nodes, they are able to spy on other people's traffic, hence a honeypot.

superobserver 8y ago
>among other government agencies. That's my point. And I'm suggesting going a step further to non-domestic agencies. Nowhere do I suggest the point in the article is false. I merely suggest it is closer to cherrypicking as others are obviously neglected. Does the FBI come to mind at all, for instance?
- mimixco 8y ago
  The thrust of this is not to name which agencies use Tor to spy on you, but to point out the fact that the entire Tor system was developed by the government and is probably a big honeypot. Who cares what TLA-named agency is using it this week? The point is that it's not the security panacea it's made out to be by tech libertarians.