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What people did before there were fire code ? How did they get out ?

fipple 8y ago
They died. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/312511670/figure/fig3/AS:667791115972611@1536225217411/Trends-in-per-capita-fire-deaths-in-the-US-12.png https://www.researchgate.net/publication/312511670/figure/fi...
- wav-part 8y ago
  But how much of that is due to "fire code" ? Compare it with lawless parts of the world. You would find that horrible-ness is going down everywhere. China advanced only after having less laws. Whats common in all these instances ? Economic freedom. More economic freedom means more prosparity. "fire code" are only good at taking credit.
  - EliRivers 8y ago
    How much of people being able to get out of burning buildings is due to the fire code? Basically all of it? Is this some kind of trick question? Economic freedom doesn't cause fire-safety. China advanced only after having less laws Yet now, China's lawlessness is a drag on advancing. The cost of low-trust in a modern economy is huge.
    - wav-part 8y ago
      Businesses did not make buildings safer just because someone told them to. It is naturally considered a bad idea to kill your customers. Businesses would always create an environment that generate more profit. Safer establishments are one of many ways. Businesses would _always_ stay ahead of any bureaucratic recommendations/requirements, because they have the incentives. Rather misguided/outdated laws are real problems, because gov lacks the (strong enough) incentive. > The cost of low-trust in a modern economy is huge. So you dont trust anyone unless gov tells you to ?
      - EliRivers 8y ago
        Businesses did not make buildings safer just because someone told them to. I disagree, and I believe the evidence supports me. Buildings became fire safe AFTER regulation and enforcement in country after country. It is naturally considered a bad idea to kill your customers. Yet in China, the milk powder suppliers killed their customers and now nobody trusts the milk. Likewise various other foods and also medicines in China. Instead, people spend a fortune smuggling safe food across borders. This is just one example amongst many. The same story exists in country after country. So you dont trust anyone unless gov tells you to? The gov doesn't have to tell me who to trust. I live in a country with strong protection laws. I live in a country where buildings get inspected and dangerous buildings shut down. I live in a country where I can trust the food I buy. There is not a government approved list of safe food shops. The government doesn't have to tell me which milk powder is safe; the government enforces a system in which I can trust, and in doing so create prosperity and safety together. I trust; I don't need a gov approved list, because I can buy food on the assumption that it's all safe by default. If I was living in a low-trust society, where the government was ineffective, that's when I would need a list of known safe sources. You are arguing from a libertarian ideology. I don't have an ideology; I only have evidence.
        wav-part 8y ago
        Whos paying for safer buldings/milk/etc ? Could not the people who just benefited from these laws, give money directly to the businesses ? If people really want and can fund something they want, they can just pay the private sector directly. Why waste so much money by routing it through the gov ? If one cant pay for the gov service/product one is consuming. Then he should be grateful for the forced charity not the gov. Gov created improvement in QoL for free, is not permanent.
  - dang 8y ago
    Please don't post ideological boilerplate to Hacker News. It's repetitive, therefore tedious, therefore off topic here. Also, swipes like "So you dont trust anyone unless gov tells you to" break the site guidelines. Please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and follow the rules when posting here.

They died. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/312511670/figure/fig3/AS:667791115972611@1536225217411/Trends-in-per-capita-fire-deaths-in-the-US-12.png https://www.researchgate.net/publication/312511670/figure/fi...

wav-part 8y ago
But how much of that is due to "fire code" ? Compare it with lawless parts of the world. You would find that horrible-ness is going down everywhere. China advanced only after having less laws. Whats common in all these instances ? Economic freedom. More economic freedom means more prosparity. "fire code" are only good at taking credit.
- EliRivers 8y ago
  How much of people being able to get out of burning buildings is due to the fire code? Basically all of it? Is this some kind of trick question? Economic freedom doesn't cause fire-safety. China advanced only after having less laws Yet now, China's lawlessness is a drag on advancing. The cost of low-trust in a modern economy is huge.
  - wav-part 8y ago
    Businesses did not make buildings safer just because someone told them to. It is naturally considered a bad idea to kill your customers. Businesses would always create an environment that generate more profit. Safer establishments are one of many ways. Businesses would _always_ stay ahead of any bureaucratic recommendations/requirements, because they have the incentives. Rather misguided/outdated laws are real problems, because gov lacks the (strong enough) incentive. > The cost of low-trust in a modern economy is huge. So you dont trust anyone unless gov tells you to ?
    - EliRivers 8y ago
      Businesses did not make buildings safer just because someone told them to. I disagree, and I believe the evidence supports me. Buildings became fire safe AFTER regulation and enforcement in country after country. It is naturally considered a bad idea to kill your customers. Yet in China, the milk powder suppliers killed their customers and now nobody trusts the milk. Likewise various other foods and also medicines in China. Instead, people spend a fortune smuggling safe food across borders. This is just one example amongst many. The same story exists in country after country. So you dont trust anyone unless gov tells you to? The gov doesn't have to tell me who to trust. I live in a country with strong protection laws. I live in a country where buildings get inspected and dangerous buildings shut down. I live in a country where I can trust the food I buy. There is not a government approved list of safe food shops. The government doesn't have to tell me which milk powder is safe; the government enforces a system in which I can trust, and in doing so create prosperity and safety together. I trust; I don't need a gov approved list, because I can buy food on the assumption that it's all safe by default. If I was living in a low-trust society, where the government was ineffective, that's when I would need a list of known safe sources. You are arguing from a libertarian ideology. I don't have an ideology; I only have evidence.
      - wav-part 8y ago
        Whos paying for safer buldings/milk/etc ? Could not the people who just benefited from these laws, give money directly to the businesses ? If people really want and can fund something they want, they can just pay the private sector directly. Why waste so much money by routing it through the gov ? If one cant pay for the gov service/product one is consuming. Then he should be grateful for the forced charity not the gov. Gov created improvement in QoL for free, is not permanent.
- dang 8y ago
  Please don't post ideological boilerplate to Hacker News. It's repetitive, therefore tedious, therefore off topic here. Also, swipes like "So you dont trust anyone unless gov tells you to" break the site guidelines. Please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and follow the rules when posting here.