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> The driver might almost forget the help he’s getting, and attribute the success to his own powers I really like this idea but I feel this is the key in getti

> The driver might almost forget the help he’s getting, and attribute the success to his own powers I really like this idea but I feel this is the key in getting it right. Several video games achieve this feeling of seamlessness when translating raw input from a controller to in-game actions. However this does occasionally go wrong and can be a frustrating experience in video games (especially if you're playing online competitively) but in the real world it can have much more drastic consequences. Also, given the complexity of the real world, it's somewhat scary to think of a scenario where you're actually trying to take a drastic action on the road but are prevented by the system from doing-so because it feels that the action is unsafe.

jghn 8y ago
The lane assist in my VW can get a little troublesome in areas of road construction where lane markers have been painted over and such. At times the car picks up the wrong lane area and encourages me to stay there instead of the real lane. It’s more of an annoyance than anything but it’s still a distraction when at highway speeds
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- chime 8y ago
  Next version should detect whether a site is under-construction (# of cones per 100m, GPS-tagged construction zone from publicly available DB, sudden speed change, unexpected traffic etc.) and turn on the soft-mode for lane-assist where it says 'You might be driving through a construction zone, so lane assist will not fight'.
  - matt-attack 8y ago
    I feel that until a car can ascertain that it’s in a construction zone using only vision (like you and I do) we’ll never achieve what we need. Any autonomous system that relies on (or even incorporates) stored databases of any kind is implicitly worse than a teenage first time driver and should therefore not be considered acceptable.
    - saiya-jin 8y ago
      Indeed, we don't get basic things like GPS signal 100% right 86400 seconds per day. Relying on some remote DB which can crash, be hacked, cut off from internet, down for maintenance etc will be a problem. Or car just losing data connection (like it happens with phones). Its nice to dream about ideal future, but if lives rely on reliability, it either works 100%, or shouldn't.
      - bluGill 8y ago
        100% is stronger than we need - humans are not 100%. If we were there would be no crashes. Even sudden mechanical failure could just affect the one car and not cause others if humans were perfect. We just need to be better than humans.
- dzhiurgis 8y ago
  Thinking about it at some version of Tesla autopilot it won’t let you to correct your inputs. Creepy. Probably correct way to go.
- Xylakant 8y ago
  I once had lane assist on a rental car (so one unknown to me) hide that one of the front tires had a flat until things got too bad to hide and then suddenly give up and dump the problem on me. Luckily no accident, but I'm certain that on a car without electronic support I would have felt earlier that something is odd.
adrr 8y ago
Speaking of video games. They need to get this system setup for race tracks like Nurburgring where the car doesn't let the driver go to hot into the corner by controlling the throttle response and braking. Also, control steering to prevent spinouts including auto counter steer.
- vesrah 8y ago
  What is the point of a race track if you even further abstract out the driver skill than we already have? (asks the person that races a fairly analog car)
  - chrisseaton 8y ago
    > What is the point of a race track if you even further abstract out the driver skill than we already have? People like to go fast in their cars without having to be as skilled? It’s not exactly a mystery.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
      - deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
    - vesrah 8y ago
      You're never going to get skilled if you don't learn how to actually drive the car in the first place. A car that 100% sticks to the road with no slip is not as quick as a car that is being pushed to the point of carrying a slight slip angle through corners, and you're not going to find out how that works with constant intervention. It is about carrying speed through corners, not negotiating them with the help of some electronic aids and pinning the gas down the straights.
      - chrisseaton 8y ago
        > You're never going to get skilled if you don't learn how to actually drive the car in the first place. Do they want to be skilled or do they just want to have some easy fun?
stochastic_monk 8y ago
> However this does occasionally go wrong and can be a frustrating experience in video games (especially if you're playing online competitively) but in the real world it can have much more drastic consequences. Even a manual override would be insufficient because by the time you realize it won't behave correctly, it's too late to apply the override and then take corrective action. I would probably not trust this system, in my hubris.
jon-wood 8y ago
I often see the argument that you might need to floor the throttle and swerve pulled out in these threads but I'm dubious that this is a real problem. My gut feel (and no, I don't have data to back this) is that far more accidents are made worse by people deciding to use that response than would be made better by the car overriding that decision and putting the brakes on to come to a somewhat controlled stop.
- nradov 8y ago
  The latest generation of automatic collision avoidance systems will automatically swerve to prevent certain types of crashes. https://www.automobilemag.com/news/2018-volvo-xc60-arrives-self-steering-head-collision-avoidance/ https://www.automobilemag.com/news/2018-volvo-xc60-arrives-s...
  - jon-wood 8y ago
    I'm sure there are certain types of crashes that can be avoided in that way, but I trust a collision avoidance system to make that judgement far more than I trust a human driver who was only half paying attention to the road five seconds ago.

jghn 8y ago

The lane assist in my VW can get a little troublesome in areas of road construction where lane markers have been painted over and such. At times the car picks up the wrong lane area and encourages me to stay there instead of the real lane. It’s more of an annoyance than anything but it’s still a distraction when at highway speeds

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
chime 8y ago
Next version should detect whether a site is under-construction (# of cones per 100m, GPS-tagged construction zone from publicly available DB, sudden speed change, unexpected traffic etc.) and turn on the soft-mode for lane-assist where it says 'You might be driving through a construction zone, so lane assist will not fight'.
- matt-attack 8y ago
  I feel that until a car can ascertain that it’s in a construction zone using only vision (like you and I do) we’ll never achieve what we need. Any autonomous system that relies on (or even incorporates) stored databases of any kind is implicitly worse than a teenage first time driver and should therefore not be considered acceptable.
  - saiya-jin 8y ago
    Indeed, we don't get basic things like GPS signal 100% right 86400 seconds per day. Relying on some remote DB which can crash, be hacked, cut off from internet, down for maintenance etc will be a problem. Or car just losing data connection (like it happens with phones). Its nice to dream about ideal future, but if lives rely on reliability, it either works 100%, or shouldn't.
    - bluGill 8y ago
      100% is stronger than we need - humans are not 100%. If we were there would be no crashes. Even sudden mechanical failure could just affect the one car and not cause others if humans were perfect. We just need to be better than humans.
dzhiurgis 8y ago
Thinking about it at some version of Tesla autopilot it won’t let you to correct your inputs. Creepy. Probably correct way to go.
Xylakant 8y ago
I once had lane assist on a rental car (so one unknown to me) hide that one of the front tires had a flat until things got too bad to hide and then suddenly give up and dump the problem on me. Luckily no accident, but I'm certain that on a car without electronic support I would have felt earlier that something is odd.

adrr 8y ago

Speaking of video games. They need to get this system setup for race tracks like Nurburgring where the car doesn't let the driver go to hot into the corner by controlling the throttle response and braking. Also, control steering to prevent spinouts including auto counter steer.

vesrah 8y ago
What is the point of a race track if you even further abstract out the driver skill than we already have? (asks the person that races a fairly analog car)
- chrisseaton 8y ago
  > What is the point of a race track if you even further abstract out the driver skill than we already have? People like to go fast in their cars without having to be as skilled? It’s not exactly a mystery.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
  - vesrah 8y ago
    You're never going to get skilled if you don't learn how to actually drive the car in the first place. A car that 100% sticks to the road with no slip is not as quick as a car that is being pushed to the point of carrying a slight slip angle through corners, and you're not going to find out how that works with constant intervention. It is about carrying speed through corners, not negotiating them with the help of some electronic aids and pinning the gas down the straights.
    - chrisseaton 8y ago
      > You're never going to get skilled if you don't learn how to actually drive the car in the first place. Do they want to be skilled or do they just want to have some easy fun?

stochastic_monk 8y ago

> However this does occasionally go wrong and can be a frustrating experience in video games (especially if you're playing online competitively) but in the real world it can have much more drastic consequences. Even a manual override would be insufficient because by the time you realize it won't behave correctly, it's too late to apply the override and then take corrective action. I would probably not trust this system, in my hubris.

jon-wood 8y ago

I often see the argument that you might need to floor the throttle and swerve pulled out in these threads but I'm dubious that this is a real problem. My gut feel (and no, I don't have data to back this) is that far more accidents are made worse by people deciding to use that response than would be made better by the car overriding that decision and putting the brakes on to come to a somewhat controlled stop.

nradov 8y ago
The latest generation of automatic collision avoidance systems will automatically swerve to prevent certain types of crashes. https://www.automobilemag.com/news/2018-volvo-xc60-arrives-self-steering-head-collision-avoidance/ https://www.automobilemag.com/news/2018-volvo-xc60-arrives-s...
- jon-wood 8y ago
  I'm sure there are certain types of crashes that can be avoided in that way, but I trust a collision avoidance system to make that judgement far more than I trust a human driver who was only half paying attention to the road five seconds ago.