9 ms·

Rather than provide rational treatment, they just force her to take "anti-psychotics" in the delusional belief that their drugs (rather than sobriety) are what

by CWSZ 8y ago

Rather than provide rational treatment, they just force her to take "anti-psychotics" in the delusional belief that their drugs (rather than sobriety) are what allows my friend to be functional. My best friend's father is a paranoid schizophrenic. Antipsychotic medication allows him to live a relatively normal life.

tcj_phx 8y ago
> My best friend's father is a paranoid schizophrenic. Antipsychotic medication allows him to live a relatively normal life. How do you know that it's the medication that allows him to "live a relatively normal life", and not the other factors? If you want to trade anecdotes... My other friend's father fell out of a tree and broke his back when she was a child (iirc). Some time later they decided he was a "schizophrenic". He's been on antipsychotics ever since. His condition has spiraled downward over the subsequent years. Last I heard he was full-on crazy. If the doctors had provided supportive treatment instead of suppressive, his life trajectory would have been totally different. My aunt's good friend had a "psychotic break" soon after her husband died unexpectedly. The friend was put on "anti-psychotics". She's now dying of liver failure, certainly as a consequence of her long-term drugging. The ugly truth about so-called "antipsychotic medication" is that the class is palliative rather than curative, and actually causes the deterioration it supposedly treats. Robert Whitaker makes the case that medications turns people's "episodes" into chronic conditions: https://www.madinamerica.com/2016/07/the-case-against-antipsychotics/ https://www.madinamerica.com/2016/07/the-case-against-antips... and https://www.madinamerica.com/2018/03/a-tale-of-two-studies/ https://www.madinamerica.com/2018/03/a-tale-of-two-studies/ and https://www.madinamerica.com/2017/09/thou-shall-not-criticize-our-drugs/ https://www.madinamerica.com/2017/09/thou-shall-not-criticiz... , for example.
- CWSZ 8y ago
  I dislike exchanging anecdotes too. If you can point me to a treatment for schizophrenia tested in quality randomized trials with the success rate of antipsychotics (which still have a very poor success rate), please do.
  - tcj_phx 8y ago
    Mad in America makes reference to an approach to psychosis from Finland called "open dialogue". http://psychrights.org/Research/Digest/Effective/OpenDialogue2yfollowupehss0204.pdf http://psychrights.org/Research/Digest/Effective/OpenDialogu... It was recently re-established that psychosis is linked to cortisol deficiency: https://psychcentral.com/news/2016/06/04/low-morning-cortisol-levels-linked-to-psychosis/104266.html https://psychcentral.com/news/2016/06/04/low-morning-cortiso... - the first such linkage was in the 1950's, but this observation was never put to mainstream use. Psychosis is fundamentally a condition of metabolic stress. Vitamin B-3 (niacin/niacinamide) was found to help patients recover: https://riordanclinic.org/2014/11/niacin-and-schizophrenia-history-and-opportunity/ https://riordanclinic.org/2014/11/niacin-and-schizophrenia-h... http://orthomolecular.org/resources/omns/v13n23.shtml http://orthomolecular.org/resources/omns/v13n23.shtml http://orthomolecular.org/resources/omns/v10n18.shtml http://orthomolecular.org/resources/omns/v10n18.shtml > If you can point me to a treatment for schizophrenia tested in quality randomized trials with the success rate of antipsychotics (which is really miserable), please do. It will be 15-20 years for a randomized trial initiated today to get such a result. Who would pay for such studies? The businesses who've been making $billions on their FDA-approved drugs for decades? The status quo defends itself, and refuses to admit they made a mistake in forcing palliative treatments on vulnerable patients.
    - killjoywashere 8y ago
      As I'm sure you're aware, there's a thing called the Dunning-Kruger effect, which predicts that people with less knowledge are more confident in their grasp of the situation than people who really do know what's going on. Reading your comments makes me wonder if perhaps you might want to reflect on whether you've seen 10,000 psychiatric patients on the in-patient wards. If not, I'm guessing you may want to revisit the possibility that the thousands of psychiatrists and nurses on the floors, who have invested their lives in caring for the sick might have a better appreciation for the signal-to-noise ratios that matter in the present topic of discussion. It seems you consider yourself wise. If that's true, I suspect you will recognize the value of at least projecting humility in the face of the cummulative lifetimes of effort others have invested in a problem.

by CWSZ 8y ago

tcj_phx 8y ago

> My best friend's father is a paranoid schizophrenic. Antipsychotic medication allows him to live a relatively normal life. How do you know that it's the medication that allows him to "live a relatively normal life", and not the other factors? If you want to trade anecdotes... My other friend's father fell out of a tree and broke his back when she was a child (iirc). Some time later they decided he was a "schizophrenic". He's been on antipsychotics ever since. His condition has spiraled downward over the subsequent years. Last I heard he was full-on crazy. If the doctors had provided supportive treatment instead of suppressive, his life trajectory would have been totally different. My aunt's good friend had a "psychotic break" soon after her husband died unexpectedly. The friend was put on "anti-psychotics". She's now dying of liver failure, certainly as a consequence of her long-term drugging. The ugly truth about so-called "antipsychotic medication" is that the class is palliative rather than curative, and actually causes the deterioration it supposedly treats. Robert Whitaker makes the case that medications turns people's "episodes" into chronic conditions: https://www.madinamerica.com/2016/07/the-case-against-antipsychotics/ https://www.madinamerica.com/2016/07/the-case-against-antips... and https://www.madinamerica.com/2018/03/a-tale-of-two-studies/ https://www.madinamerica.com/2018/03/a-tale-of-two-studies/ and https://www.madinamerica.com/2017/09/thou-shall-not-criticize-our-drugs/ https://www.madinamerica.com/2017/09/thou-shall-not-criticiz... , for example.

CWSZ 8y ago
I dislike exchanging anecdotes too. If you can point me to a treatment for schizophrenia tested in quality randomized trials with the success rate of antipsychotics (which still have a very poor success rate), please do.
- tcj_phx 8y ago
  Mad in America makes reference to an approach to psychosis from Finland called "open dialogue". http://psychrights.org/Research/Digest/Effective/OpenDialogue2yfollowupehss0204.pdf http://psychrights.org/Research/Digest/Effective/OpenDialogu... It was recently re-established that psychosis is linked to cortisol deficiency: https://psychcentral.com/news/2016/06/04/low-morning-cortisol-levels-linked-to-psychosis/104266.html https://psychcentral.com/news/2016/06/04/low-morning-cortiso... - the first such linkage was in the 1950's, but this observation was never put to mainstream use. Psychosis is fundamentally a condition of metabolic stress. Vitamin B-3 (niacin/niacinamide) was found to help patients recover: https://riordanclinic.org/2014/11/niacin-and-schizophrenia-history-and-opportunity/ https://riordanclinic.org/2014/11/niacin-and-schizophrenia-h... http://orthomolecular.org/resources/omns/v13n23.shtml http://orthomolecular.org/resources/omns/v13n23.shtml http://orthomolecular.org/resources/omns/v10n18.shtml http://orthomolecular.org/resources/omns/v10n18.shtml > If you can point me to a treatment for schizophrenia tested in quality randomized trials with the success rate of antipsychotics (which is really miserable), please do. It will be 15-20 years for a randomized trial initiated today to get such a result. Who would pay for such studies? The businesses who've been making $billions on their FDA-approved drugs for decades? The status quo defends itself, and refuses to admit they made a mistake in forcing palliative treatments on vulnerable patients.
  - killjoywashere 8y ago
    As I'm sure you're aware, there's a thing called the Dunning-Kruger effect, which predicts that people with less knowledge are more confident in their grasp of the situation than people who really do know what's going on. Reading your comments makes me wonder if perhaps you might want to reflect on whether you've seen 10,000 psychiatric patients on the in-patient wards. If not, I'm guessing you may want to revisit the possibility that the thousands of psychiatrists and nurses on the floors, who have invested their lives in caring for the sick might have a better appreciation for the signal-to-noise ratios that matter in the present topic of discussion. It seems you consider yourself wise. If that's true, I suspect you will recognize the value of at least projecting humility in the face of the cummulative lifetimes of effort others have invested in a problem.