4 ms·

By this logic you wouldn't call a US Senator a member of the US Government?

by ryanc 16y ago

gloob 16y ago
The parliamentary system is rather different from the US political system. Notably, there is "the government" and "the opposition", which are usually (but not necessarily) the two largest parties in the parliament. (Disclaimer: I'm Canadian. This is how it works in Canada. There are differences between the Canadian and British systems, but they are much smaller than the differences between the American and British systems).
frobozz 16y ago
I have no idea how the terminology is applied in the US, but in the UK, it does not include every Tom, Dick or Harry that manages to get themselves a seat in Parliament.
nihilocrat 16y ago
The usage of the term "government" in commonwealth countries, following the Westminster System (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westminster_system http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westminster_system), refers more specifically to the executive branch (prime minister and cabinet) currently in power and not the state in general. Since the Prime Minister and his/her cabinet are merely MPs in high positions, the division between executive and legistlative in terms of personnel is not nearly as clear-cut as it is in US politics.
- pbhjpbhj 16y ago
  >The usage of the term "government" in commonwealth countries, following the Westminster System (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westminster_system http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westminster_system), refers more specifically to the executive branch (prime minister and cabinet) currently in power and not the state in general. That's very interesting, I don't think Scottish, English or Welsh people use "government" it that way though FWIW. What word does one use for the government if the word government is co-opted for the Cabinet & PM?
  - handelaar 16y ago
    >I don't think Scottish, English or Welsh people use "government" it that way though Well, you'd be wrong. That's exactly how we use it when we're talking about people. I won't pretend you don't hear the same word used to refer to 'the State' (which is the term we use for the overall apparatus of the State) colloquially, but you can always distinguish from context.
    - pbhjpbhj 16y ago
      I know it's a single data point but I've lived for several years in each region and worked in government (note I've never been part of the cabinet nor PM, sorry for my apparently uncommon usage). I'm not arguing that the more intellectual echelons such as political scientists don't use it in the described manner however; don't move in those circles. I never hear people refer to our country [the UK] as "the state" either. I perceive state as including the people (but ours is a [pseudo] democratic state so I'm coloured by that. It's strange that I've not heard this usage, isn't it? I just jumped to the first newspaper I thought of (well the 2nd, but paywall ...) and the first story in the UK Politics section that mentioned government (Ctrl+f search on the UK Pol' page). http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/david-cameron-defends-immigration-cap-2124168.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/david-cameron-... "The Government's immigration cap should not affect inter-company transfers for global firms, David Cameron said today. " Well it's not the "cabinet and prime ministers immigration cap". The immigration cap is that [on some level] agreed in parliament, passed by the Lords and implemented by the relevant civil servants. I'm still not seeing it. Whereabouts in the UK are you all (upvoters) from, what occupations are you in?
      - frobozz 16y ago
        By "worked in government" do you mean "worked in a department of the civil service eventually reporting to a cabinet minister"?
        pbhjpbhj 16y ago
        Yes, does this also mean that I should call a driver a "car"?
rlmw 16y ago
I can somewhat see your point, but the house of lords is primarily aimed at redrafting/refining legislation, and can be overruled under the Parliament Acts[0]. So it is possible to pass legislation without the permission of the House of Lords, but it isn't possible to pass legislation without it passing through the Senate afaik. Obviously legislation thats passed the senate can still be vetoed or stopped by the House, but thats a different thing. [0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parliament_Acts_1911_and_1949 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parliament_Acts_1911_and_1949
ryanc 16y ago
I think despite all the differences between systems I would still call someone who is a member of the legislative body a member of the government in general terms.
dailyrorschach 16y ago
In the US we would. The equivalent term would be Administration.

By this logic you wouldn't call a US Senator a member of the US Government?

by ryanc 16y ago

By this logic you wouldn't call a US Senator a member of the US Government?

gloob 16y ago

The parliamentary system is rather different from the US political system. Notably, there is "the government" and "the opposition", which are usually (but not necessarily) the two largest parties in the parliament. (Disclaimer: I'm Canadian. This is how it works in Canada. There are differences between the Canadian and British systems, but they are much smaller than the differences between the American and British systems).

frobozz 16y ago

I have no idea how the terminology is applied in the US, but in the UK, it does not include every Tom, Dick or Harry that manages to get themselves a seat in Parliament.

nihilocrat 16y ago

The usage of the term "government" in commonwealth countries, following the Westminster System (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westminster_system http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westminster_system), refers more specifically to the executive branch (prime minister and cabinet) currently in power and not the state in general. Since the Prime Minister and his/her cabinet are merely MPs in high positions, the division between executive and legistlative in terms of personnel is not nearly as clear-cut as it is in US politics.

pbhjpbhj 16y ago
>The usage of the term "government" in commonwealth countries, following the Westminster System (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westminster_system http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westminster_system), refers more specifically to the executive branch (prime minister and cabinet) currently in power and not the state in general. That's very interesting, I don't think Scottish, English or Welsh people use "government" it that way though FWIW. What word does one use for the government if the word government is co-opted for the Cabinet & PM?
- handelaar 16y ago
  >I don't think Scottish, English or Welsh people use "government" it that way though Well, you'd be wrong. That's exactly how we use it when we're talking about people. I won't pretend you don't hear the same word used to refer to 'the State' (which is the term we use for the overall apparatus of the State) colloquially, but you can always distinguish from context.
  - pbhjpbhj 16y ago
    I know it's a single data point but I've lived for several years in each region and worked in government (note I've never been part of the cabinet nor PM, sorry for my apparently uncommon usage). I'm not arguing that the more intellectual echelons such as political scientists don't use it in the described manner however; don't move in those circles. I never hear people refer to our country [the UK] as "the state" either. I perceive state as including the people (but ours is a [pseudo] democratic state so I'm coloured by that. It's strange that I've not heard this usage, isn't it? I just jumped to the first newspaper I thought of (well the 2nd, but paywall ...) and the first story in the UK Politics section that mentioned government (Ctrl+f search on the UK Pol' page). http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/david-cameron-defends-immigration-cap-2124168.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/david-cameron-... "The Government's immigration cap should not affect inter-company transfers for global firms, David Cameron said today. " Well it's not the "cabinet and prime ministers immigration cap". The immigration cap is that [on some level] agreed in parliament, passed by the Lords and implemented by the relevant civil servants. I'm still not seeing it. Whereabouts in the UK are you all (upvoters) from, what occupations are you in?
    - frobozz 16y ago
      By "worked in government" do you mean "worked in a department of the civil service eventually reporting to a cabinet minister"?
      - pbhjpbhj 16y ago
        Yes, does this also mean that I should call a driver a "car"?

rlmw 16y ago

I can somewhat see your point, but the house of lords is primarily aimed at redrafting/refining legislation, and can be overruled under the Parliament Acts[0]. So it is possible to pass legislation without the permission of the House of Lords, but it isn't possible to pass legislation without it passing through the Senate afaik. Obviously legislation thats passed the senate can still be vetoed or stopped by the House, but thats a different thing. [0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parliament_Acts_1911_and_1949 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parliament_Acts_1911_and_1949

ryanc 16y ago

I think despite all the differences between systems I would still call someone who is a member of the legislative body a member of the government in general terms.

dailyrorschach 16y ago

In the US we would. The equivalent term would be Administration.