7 ms·

How does GPL lose by pushing software to be open?

by mofey 16y ago

BigZaphod 16y ago
It's ironic to me that "openness" is cited as a reason to prevent certain software from being used and enjoyed on a specific platform.
- hasenj 16y ago
  Who's pulling the software out? Apple.
  - BigZaphod 16y ago
    So who lied, then, when they agreed to Apple's explicitly stated terms and gave Apple permission to distribute VLC in this form in the App Store? If VLC gets removed, it's because this developer is essentially demanding that Apple remove it.
    - patrickaljord 16y ago
      The dev who is asking to remove it is not the same as the one who submitted it to the appstore. VLC is foss and as such any contributor is a copyright holder and can ask apple to remove it from the appstore.
      - BigZaphod 16y ago
        I know it's not the same individual that submitted as is making the current complaint. Whomever agreed to Apple's terms told Apple, by way of agreeing to the contract, that they had full rights and authority to grant Apple the right to distribute the app with all the associated restrictions, etc. outlined in the contract. It would seem that when you consider the terms of the GPL, that person did not have the authority to claim such a thing. That person lied or, at best, was simply mistaken. This isn't Apple's fault. That's all I'm saying. Perhaps ultimately we agree on that point.
        hasenj 16y ago
        You don't get it. Open apps can't get on the iPhone because Apple disallows it. Apple is pulling it out, they control what software can or cannot get in. There's no way for anyone to install anything (legally, and without hassle) on the iTouch devices without Apple's permission.
        StavrosK 16y ago
        There definitely is a perfectly legal and convenient way to install anything: jailbreak it and put whatever you want on it.
        palish 16y ago
        Oooh! Someone said "Jailbreak"! I've been dying to ask: What kinds of awesome things can you do with a jailbroken iPhone? I know you can install VLC + some software to stream videos from some other computer via wifi, which is pretty sweet. What else? I've been considering Jailbreaking, but it would be cool to have a compelling, shiny reason.
        StavrosK 16y ago
        You can install lockinfo: http://thew0rd.com/wp-content/gallery/postrelated/lockinfo.png http://thew0rd.com/wp-content/gallery/postrelated/lockinfo.p...
        palish 16y ago
        Cool! That's definitely shiny! I can do all of that with my current iPhone anyway though. Gimme a reason to void the warranty... god knows I want to!
        StavrosK 16y ago
        Wait, how can you do that with an unjailbroken iPhone?
  - jonhendry 16y ago
    The developer submitted it knowing that Apple's distribution approach was incompatible with the license. The developer failed. Apple said up front what they'll do for the developer. That doesn't include "whatever you ask us to do". Apple's completely in the clear. The developer's a moron.
tzs 16y ago
Because numerous other FLOSS licenses, including others that are copyleft licenses such as MS-PL, do not run into problems if someone uses code under those licenses in an app that they distribute through the App Store. The GPL ends up standing out as the "free" license that makes it hardest to actually distribute free software and reuse free code in other free software projects.
- sprout 16y ago
  Hm, it seems to me it's very difficult to reuse the BSD code that underlies iOS. Yeah, you can use the code that Apple gives you, but as far as making modifications Apple actively makes it so you run into problems. In other words, talking about reuse is changing the subject. The important thing is freedom to modify the code you're using.
  - Locke1689 16y ago
    The important thing is freedom to modify the code you're using. As someone who prefers to license under the FreeBSD license -- no it's not. It's about contributing code to make software everywhere better (whether or not you can modify the result or not). Now, this is just my opinion, but so is yours and you should probably speak of it that way instead of like fact.
    - sprout 16y ago
      In essence, the GPL plays the long game and BSD plays the short game. This statement: >The GPL ends up standing out as the "free" license that makes it hardest to actually distribute free software and reuse free code in other free software projects. Is only true when you look at it immediately. In the long run, BSD licenses stand out as the ones that make it hardest to reuse code, because people don't have to think about reuse when they modify it, which is an important consideration. If you're just modifying some code for your company's internal use, not only are you not going to refuse to distribute it, you're going to avoid coding for situations that have wider applicability. And of course this is my opinion. That was clear when I said "the important thing." There's no need to pepper my speech with "I think" when I'm obviously stating things that are not factual.

How does GPL lose by pushing software to be open?

by mofey 16y ago

How does GPL lose by pushing software to be open?

It's ironic to me that "openness" is cited as a reason to prevent certain software from being used and enjoyed on a specific platform.

hasenj 16y ago
Who's pulling the software out? Apple.
- BigZaphod 16y ago
  So who lied, then, when they agreed to Apple's explicitly stated terms and gave Apple permission to distribute VLC in this form in the App Store? If VLC gets removed, it's because this developer is essentially demanding that Apple remove it.
  - patrickaljord 16y ago
    The dev who is asking to remove it is not the same as the one who submitted it to the appstore. VLC is foss and as such any contributor is a copyright holder and can ask apple to remove it from the appstore.
    - BigZaphod 16y ago
      I know it's not the same individual that submitted as is making the current complaint. Whomever agreed to Apple's terms told Apple, by way of agreeing to the contract, that they had full rights and authority to grant Apple the right to distribute the app with all the associated restrictions, etc. outlined in the contract. It would seem that when you consider the terms of the GPL, that person did not have the authority to claim such a thing. That person lied or, at best, was simply mistaken. This isn't Apple's fault. That's all I'm saying. Perhaps ultimately we agree on that point.
      - hasenj 16y ago
        You don't get it. Open apps can't get on the iPhone because Apple disallows it. Apple is pulling it out, they control what software can or cannot get in. There's no way for anyone to install anything (legally, and without hassle) on the iTouch devices without Apple's permission.
        StavrosK 16y ago
        There definitely is a perfectly legal and convenient way to install anything: jailbreak it and put whatever you want on it.
        palish 16y ago
        Oooh! Someone said "Jailbreak"! I've been dying to ask: What kinds of awesome things can you do with a jailbroken iPhone? I know you can install VLC + some software to stream videos from some other computer via wifi, which is pretty sweet. What else? I've been considering Jailbreaking, but it would be cool to have a compelling, shiny reason.
        StavrosK 16y ago
        You can install lockinfo: http://thew0rd.com/wp-content/gallery/postrelated/lockinfo.png http://thew0rd.com/wp-content/gallery/postrelated/lockinfo.p...
        palish 16y ago
        Cool! That's definitely shiny! I can do all of that with my current iPhone anyway though. Gimme a reason to void the warranty... god knows I want to!
        StavrosK 16y ago
        Wait, how can you do that with an unjailbroken iPhone?
- jonhendry 16y ago
  The developer submitted it knowing that Apple's distribution approach was incompatible with the license. The developer failed. Apple said up front what they'll do for the developer. That doesn't include "whatever you ask us to do". Apple's completely in the clear. The developer's a moron.

tzs 16y ago

Because numerous other FLOSS licenses, including others that are copyleft licenses such as MS-PL, do not run into problems if someone uses code under those licenses in an app that they distribute through the App Store. The GPL ends up standing out as the "free" license that makes it hardest to actually distribute free software and reuse free code in other free software projects.

sprout 16y ago
Hm, it seems to me it's very difficult to reuse the BSD code that underlies iOS. Yeah, you can use the code that Apple gives you, but as far as making modifications Apple actively makes it so you run into problems. In other words, talking about reuse is changing the subject. The important thing is freedom to modify the code you're using.
- Locke1689 16y ago
  The important thing is freedom to modify the code you're using. As someone who prefers to license under the FreeBSD license -- no it's not. It's about contributing code to make software everywhere better (whether or not you can modify the result or not). Now, this is just my opinion, but so is yours and you should probably speak of it that way instead of like fact.
  - sprout 16y ago
    In essence, the GPL plays the long game and BSD plays the short game. This statement: >The GPL ends up standing out as the "free" license that makes it hardest to actually distribute free software and reuse free code in other free software projects. Is only true when you look at it immediately. In the long run, BSD licenses stand out as the ones that make it hardest to reuse code, because people don't have to think about reuse when they modify it, which is an important consideration. If you're just modifying some code for your company's internal use, not only are you not going to refuse to distribute it, you're going to avoid coding for situations that have wider applicability. And of course this is my opinion. That was clear when I said "the important thing." There's no need to pepper my speech with "I think" when I'm obviously stating things that are not factual.