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I feel really worried about the Kernel project now that they have let Identity Politics breach their walls. These kind of things have a tendency to split a comm

I feel really worried about the Kernel project now that they have let Identity Politics breach their walls. These kind of things have a tendency to split a community rather than unite it. The kernel project is surely one of the most successful software projects ever. Having survived for 20 years, why change a winning formula? I have always considered Linus un-political and more interested in getting sh*t done and getting it right above anything else, so why he would sign-off on this is a mystery to me.

valvar 8y ago
He has explained his reasoning in an interview [1]. >Because I may have my reservations about excessive political correctness, but honestly, I absolutely do not want to be seen as being in the same camp as the low-life scum on the internet that think it's OK to be a white nationalist Nazi, and have some truly nasty misogynistic, homophobic or transphobic behaviour. And those people were complaining about too much political correctness too, and in the process just making my public stance look bad. So, apparently, in order to not be associated with a political fringe position, one has to instead associate oneself with the polar opposite political fringe position. It's also the same line of reasoning that led Norwegian supermarkets to remove Counter-Strike and World of Warcraft from their shelves when they found out that Anders Behring Breivik had enjoyed those games. I assume that a true adherent to this philosophy would also eschew vegetarianism due to its associations with Adolf Hitler. [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-45664640 https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-45664640
- thomasfedb 8y ago
  Reductio ad Hitlerum, you lose!
  - valvar 8y ago
    Thank you for your well-formulated contribution to the discussion.
    - thomasfedb 8y ago
      Ad hominem?
      - valvar 8y ago
        I'm actually not sure about what you are trying to communicate. Are you attempting to mock me for highlighting logical fallacies?
      - thomasfedb 8y ago
        > I'm actually not sure about what you are trying to communicate. I'm communicating the names of the fallacies I believe that you have committed. Tongue firmly half in cheek.
        valvar 8y ago
        So basically, you are trolling. Thank you for being candid.
        thomasfedb 8y ago
        No not really, I genuinely think that evoking Hitler was a bad way to make your original argument.
        valvar 8y ago
        >evoking Hitler was a bad way to make your original argument You'll notice that I was reducing to the reduction to Hitler, not reducing to Hitler himself. And this is not such a long stride to take, as the reduction to nazism had already occurred in the quote that I was criticizing.
- ManuelKiessling 8y ago
  Either that, or some people tend to see "vegetarianism" and "dictatorship/genocide" as orthogonal, while seeing "low-life scum on the internet" and "complaining about too much political correctness" as not orthogonal?
  - valvar 8y ago
    Should the separation not be between ``low-life scum on the internet'' (the far right) and ``not being explicitly politically correct'' (being apolitical)? ``We need more political correctness'' (the far left) is on the reflected axis of ``complaining about too much political correctness'' (the far right).
werid 8y ago
The community was already split. Those who tolerated his behaviour and those who didn't.
- codeaken 8y ago
  I don't think it was, at least not that black and white. If the community really was that split the project would not have survived for 20 years. Surely we would have seen a fork where the involved factions split off. I think this is a very vocal minority in play here. From my understanding these changes did not come from any of the core contributors but rather from activists. The used divide and rule; if you don't sign off on our political documents you are with "them" and we will let everyone know what a horrible human being you are.
  - binaryapparatus 8y ago
    That's very good understanding of recent events codeaken, thanks.
  - werid 8y ago
    I said nothing of how big the split was. It seems the loud voices about how bad the CoC is aren't actually kernel devs... But there is atleast one known kernel dev who spoke up about Linus' behaviour, and eventually just quit developing for the kernel. edit: not to mention those who don't want to touch the kernel because of his behaviour. one guy said the only contributions he makes to the kernel are for his employer. if it wasn't for that, he'd not touch it.
    - ageofwant 8y ago
      So out of ~6k developers you only know of two malcontents? I don't think that is what 'split' means.
- deialtrous 8y ago
  For the 30 years where it was one project, the community was split? And now that it has been forked because of outside political issues being forced in, that's the same amount of split as the last 30 years?

valvar 8y ago

He has explained his reasoning in an interview [1]. >Because I may have my reservations about excessive political correctness, but honestly, I absolutely do not want to be seen as being in the same camp as the low-life scum on the internet that think it's OK to be a white nationalist Nazi, and have some truly nasty misogynistic, homophobic or transphobic behaviour. And those people were complaining about too much political correctness too, and in the process just making my public stance look bad. So, apparently, in order to not be associated with a political fringe position, one has to instead associate oneself with the polar opposite political fringe position. It's also the same line of reasoning that led Norwegian supermarkets to remove Counter-Strike and World of Warcraft from their shelves when they found out that Anders Behring Breivik had enjoyed those games. I assume that a true adherent to this philosophy would also eschew vegetarianism due to its associations with Adolf Hitler. [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-45664640 https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-45664640

thomasfedb 8y ago
Reductio ad Hitlerum, you lose!
- valvar 8y ago
  Thank you for your well-formulated contribution to the discussion.
  - thomasfedb 8y ago
    Ad hominem?
    - valvar 8y ago
      I'm actually not sure about what you are trying to communicate. Are you attempting to mock me for highlighting logical fallacies?
    - thomasfedb 8y ago
      > I'm actually not sure about what you are trying to communicate. I'm communicating the names of the fallacies I believe that you have committed. Tongue firmly half in cheek.
      - valvar 8y ago
        So basically, you are trolling. Thank you for being candid.
        thomasfedb 8y ago
        No not really, I genuinely think that evoking Hitler was a bad way to make your original argument.
        valvar 8y ago
        >evoking Hitler was a bad way to make your original argument You'll notice that I was reducing to the reduction to Hitler, not reducing to Hitler himself. And this is not such a long stride to take, as the reduction to nazism had already occurred in the quote that I was criticizing.
ManuelKiessling 8y ago
Either that, or some people tend to see "vegetarianism" and "dictatorship/genocide" as orthogonal, while seeing "low-life scum on the internet" and "complaining about too much political correctness" as not orthogonal?
- valvar 8y ago
  Should the separation not be between ``low-life scum on the internet'' (the far right) and ``not being explicitly politically correct'' (being apolitical)? ``We need more political correctness'' (the far left) is on the reflected axis of ``complaining about too much political correctness'' (the far right).

werid 8y ago

The community was already split. Those who tolerated his behaviour and those who didn't.

codeaken 8y ago
I don't think it was, at least not that black and white. If the community really was that split the project would not have survived for 20 years. Surely we would have seen a fork where the involved factions split off. I think this is a very vocal minority in play here. From my understanding these changes did not come from any of the core contributors but rather from activists. The used divide and rule; if you don't sign off on our political documents you are with "them" and we will let everyone know what a horrible human being you are.
- binaryapparatus 8y ago
  That's very good understanding of recent events codeaken, thanks.
- werid 8y ago
  I said nothing of how big the split was. It seems the loud voices about how bad the CoC is aren't actually kernel devs... But there is atleast one known kernel dev who spoke up about Linus' behaviour, and eventually just quit developing for the kernel. edit: not to mention those who don't want to touch the kernel because of his behaviour. one guy said the only contributions he makes to the kernel are for his employer. if it wasn't for that, he'd not touch it.
  - ageofwant 8y ago
    So out of ~6k developers you only know of two malcontents? I don't think that is what 'split' means.
deialtrous 8y ago
For the 30 years where it was one project, the community was split? And now that it has been forked because of outside political issues being forced in, that's the same amount of split as the last 30 years?