6 ms·

SQLite Code of Conduct

157 points by lazyloop 8y ago

lazyloop 8y ago
"1. First of all, love the Lord God with your whole heart, your whole soul, and your whole strength."
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
allanmacgregor 8y ago
WTF? Please tell this isn't for real. ``` This rule is strict, and none are able to comply perfectly. Grace is readily granted for minor transgressions. All are encouraged to follow this rule closely, as in so doing they may expect to live happier, healthier, and more productive lives. The entire rule is good and wholesome, and yet we make no enforcement of the more introspective aspects. Everyone is free to use the SQLite source code, object code, and/or documentation regardless of their opinion of and adherence to this rule. SQLite has been and continues to be completely free to everyone, without precondition.``` Do I have to go for confession before every pull request now?
- empthought 8y ago
  You would have never made a pull request for SQLite anyway, since anyone in a position to do that would know they don't use GitHub.
harianus 8y ago
What has God to do with SQLite?
- allanmacgregor 8y ago
  Best I can tell is satire
  - lazyloop 8y ago
    Dangerous not to make that more clear if true.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - jxcl 8y ago
      Isn't the whole point of good satire that it's not immediately evident whether it's a joke or not? Regardless, I don't see how this satire could be considered dangerous.
      - cm2187 8y ago
        > Regardless, I don't see how this satire could be considered dangerous. Watch the twitter mob forming outside the window!
        danielvf 8y ago
        You can watch the mob forming in realtime. https://twitter.com/search?q=sqlite&src=typd https://twitter.com/search?q=sqlite&src=typd > "I hope there are discussions at REDACTED today about whether featuring SQLite on their front page is consistent with their values." > "The message is clear: if you're concerned about diversity, decency, and inclusiveness, stay well away from the SQLite project." > "I wonder if SQLite Consortium member organizations @mozilla, NDS association, @BentleySystems, @expensify, @business were consulted on this move." > "This is the as*le: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D._Richard_Hipp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D._Richard_Hipp … (thanks @weigandtLabs for finding that out). He _is_ the main SQLite dev. And that's the community he's building. So SQLite is now dead -- or, at least, it should be."
        cm2187 8y ago
        Pathetic. I am not a user of twitter precisely because I have no interest in reading those sort of reactions. But I am strangely fascinated by this continuous stream of 1st degree, knee jerk reactions, it's kind of like watching shit flowing out of a bull's ass...
- empthought 8y ago
  About as much as pronouns have to do with FreeBSD.
  - jdauriemma 8y ago
    Could you elaborate on that?
    - cholantesh 8y ago
      FreeBSD's CoC abjures deliberate misgendering. Apparently, this is cause for serious concern among some programmers.
  - cultus 8y ago
    So you think it is bad for folks in the FreeBSD project to not be able to freely insult others by misgendering them? Why is this such a problem for you? These code of conducts all boil down to "don't be a dick." It's too bad we need them, but we clearly do. Certain groups (LGBT, minorities) tend to get more abuse than others, so issues involving them are often spelled out more explicitly. All large organizations have written standards of conduct. Open source software projects these days are often large, and are made up of heterogeneous groups of people. It's obvious that CoCs can be useful just the same, to reduce ambiguity in conflict if nothing else.
    - empthought 8y ago
      That’s a nice set of conclusions you’ve jumped to. I didn’t say anything like what you are attributing to me. FreeBSD has their reasons and expression of the “don’t be a dick” rule, and SQLite has their reasons and expression of the same rule. I don’t see why either one is worth carping about. Both are expressions of cultural values that have nothing to do with the software being produced.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- moocowtruck 8y ago
  what does anyone have to do with anything?
- catacombs 8y ago
  Nothing. You use TempleOS if you want to talk to God.
frou_dh 8y ago
Bad bad man. Goofy documents shall only get the benefit of the doubt if they're brought in by postmodernists.
Traut 8y ago
pure awesomeness
- iagovar 8y ago
  I agree. I'm enjoying so much the reaction...
keldaris 8y ago
This is a lovely piece of satire given the prevailing obsession with silly CoCs all around.
- ahje 8y ago
  Replace "God" with "Linus" and "Christ" with "The Linux Kernel Mailing List", and we'll have a decent candidate for a Linux CoC. ;)
- julian-klode 8y ago
  CoCs are not silly, they solve very important and real problems.
  - keldaris 8y ago
    CoCs on their own solve exactly nothing, they're just a tool that's supposed to enable project leadership to solve certain issues more effectively. Whether they actually serve that function is an open question since the practice is still fairly new. I haven't seen any meaningful evidence one way or the other (feel free to provide some). While I'm sympathetic to the argument that sufficiently large projects should, on average, benefit from some degree of formalization of behavioral norms (whether you call it a code of conduct or something else), the recent trend of insisting (often abusively) that every open source project, however small, should adopt this practice is silly, annoying and has obviously caused a backlash in some parts of the open source community, hence this thread.
    - pgeorgi 8y ago
      > since the practice is still fairly new "in tech". The CoC we're discussing here exists - as CoC - for Millenia. An even older example would be the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocratic_Oath https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocratic_Oath, which might have been more appropriate as an example of a "code of work conduct", but "I swear by Apollo the Healer, by Asclepius, by Hygieia, by Panacea, and by all the gods and goddesses" might rub some people the wrong way, including, in this case, sqlite's author.
fatbird 8y ago
> 66. Do not love quarreling I'm seeing a problem here.
- candiodari 8y ago
  Yeah, us Sparrow-keepers are OFFENDED !
danielvf 8y ago
Note that SQLite is, in it's own words, "Open-Source, not Open-Contribution". SQLite does not accept patches from the public. See https://www.sqlite.org/copyright.html https://www.sqlite.org/copyright.html Looking at the commit history for the project, all of the commits for 2018 have been from just three people (with 98% of those coming from just two of those).
crispyambulance 8y ago
Of course it is satirical but I think people forget that the CoC's that been gaining traction lately are themselves a response to a real problem. Yes, some CoC's may be fodder for satire and criticism because they cross the line when it comes to being excessively dogmatic. However, these things exist because online communities have been beset by hordes of assholes for a very long time. Many people feel excluded or are dismissed just because some jerk manages to wield a measure of virtual power. It would be a mistake to move in the reverse direction now and abandon CoC's. If they're not working, perhaps change them or try something else, but the problem needs to be addressed.
- julian-klode 8y ago
  The SQLite folks are saying that code of conducts are irrelevant. Hence, they are saying that the problems solved by CoCs do not exists, or are not problems. This is a disgusting move and we need to make sure to react appropriately by not using sqlite and fossil and other software these people created.
  - zzzcpan 8y ago
    They are not irrelevant, they are actively harmful. We need to ridicule code of conducts more before this gets out of hand.
  - pgeorgi 8y ago
    > The SQLite folks are saying that code of conducts are irrelevant. Did they? It's a Code of Conduct for communal matters that was written some 1500 years ago. Given that the Benedictine order still exists, it may well be practiced to this day (not sure if they updated it. I wouldn't see a reason.) Given that there's no larger community around sqlite in the GitHub sense (they usually don't even take patches), and https://twitter.com/drichardhipp https://twitter.com/drichardhipp claims that DRH is Christian, they could as well pick a CoC that matches the family operation that is driving sqlite. The page is rather explicit about not having to adhere to the CoC to _use_ sqlite in any shape or form, and you don't get to _develop_ sqlite anyway, so...
BaldricksGhost 8y ago
While we often confuse religion with the practices of the idiots fawning over politicians here in the US, there is beauty to be found in the wisdom of the ancients on occasion.
sabertoothed 8y ago
That's a joke, right? Right?
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
OldManAndTheCpp 8y ago
It is not obvious that this is satire. Mr Hipp (main contributor) links his homepage at http://www.hwaci.com/drh/ http://www.hwaci.com/drh/. From that page, he links his wife (Mrs. Wyrick): http://www.hwaci.com/ggw/index.html http://www.hwaci.com/ggw/index.html. She has among her interests: http://www.hwaci.com/ggw/allerton.pdf http://www.hwaci.com/ggw/allerton.pdf "Church Music Resources". As mentioned elsewhere in this thread: SQLite is "Open-Source, not Open-Contribution". In that context, an openly religious CoC does not seem out of the question.
- cholantesh 8y ago
  We don't need to rely on this circumstance. We can point directly to Hipp's own words: https://twitter.com/DRichardHipp/status/1054360847319994368?s=19 https://twitter.com/DRichardHipp/status/1054360847319994368?...
mohammedbin 8y ago
Dang why is this flagged? Also as a muslim, it's very amusing to me that there are people who are fighting for me without my asking them and yet them telling me and other muslim it's bad. It's hilarious what the politically programmed noise-makers think of themselves.
- katastic 8y ago
  The same way they never ask me, a disabled person, what I think. I'm only to be trotted out for tear votes. I am to be seen, not heard. My opinion is irrelevant.
- atom-morgan 8y ago
  "Politics* isn't allowed on HN" *right-leaning
kchoudhu 8y ago
Hell, I'm a Muslim and I'd sign on to this CoC without hesitation.

157 points by lazyloop 8y ago

lazyloop 8y ago

"1. First of all, love the Lord God with your whole heart, your whole soul, and your whole strength."

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

allanmacgregor 8y ago

WTF? Please tell this isn't for real. ``` This rule is strict, and none are able to comply perfectly. Grace is readily granted for minor transgressions. All are encouraged to follow this rule closely, as in so doing they may expect to live happier, healthier, and more productive lives. The entire rule is good and wholesome, and yet we make no enforcement of the more introspective aspects. Everyone is free to use the SQLite source code, object code, and/or documentation regardless of their opinion of and adherence to this rule. SQLite has been and continues to be completely free to everyone, without precondition.``` Do I have to go for confession before every pull request now?

empthought 8y ago
You would have never made a pull request for SQLite anyway, since anyone in a position to do that would know they don't use GitHub.

harianus 8y ago

What has God to do with SQLite?

allanmacgregor 8y ago
Best I can tell is satire
- lazyloop 8y ago
  Dangerous not to make that more clear if true.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - jxcl 8y ago
    Isn't the whole point of good satire that it's not immediately evident whether it's a joke or not? Regardless, I don't see how this satire could be considered dangerous.
    - cm2187 8y ago
      > Regardless, I don't see how this satire could be considered dangerous. Watch the twitter mob forming outside the window!
      - danielvf 8y ago
        You can watch the mob forming in realtime. https://twitter.com/search?q=sqlite&src=typd https://twitter.com/search?q=sqlite&src=typd > "I hope there are discussions at REDACTED today about whether featuring SQLite on their front page is consistent with their values." > "The message is clear: if you're concerned about diversity, decency, and inclusiveness, stay well away from the SQLite project." > "I wonder if SQLite Consortium member organizations @mozilla, NDS association, @BentleySystems, @expensify, @business were consulted on this move." > "This is the as*le: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D._Richard_Hipp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D._Richard_Hipp … (thanks @weigandtLabs for finding that out). He _is_ the main SQLite dev. And that's the community he's building. So SQLite is now dead -- or, at least, it should be."
        cm2187 8y ago
        Pathetic. I am not a user of twitter precisely because I have no interest in reading those sort of reactions. But I am strangely fascinated by this continuous stream of 1st degree, knee jerk reactions, it's kind of like watching shit flowing out of a bull's ass...
empthought 8y ago
About as much as pronouns have to do with FreeBSD.
- jdauriemma 8y ago
  Could you elaborate on that?
  - cholantesh 8y ago
    FreeBSD's CoC abjures deliberate misgendering. Apparently, this is cause for serious concern among some programmers.
- cultus 8y ago
  So you think it is bad for folks in the FreeBSD project to not be able to freely insult others by misgendering them? Why is this such a problem for you? These code of conducts all boil down to "don't be a dick." It's too bad we need them, but we clearly do. Certain groups (LGBT, minorities) tend to get more abuse than others, so issues involving them are often spelled out more explicitly. All large organizations have written standards of conduct. Open source software projects these days are often large, and are made up of heterogeneous groups of people. It's obvious that CoCs can be useful just the same, to reduce ambiguity in conflict if nothing else.
  - empthought 8y ago
    That’s a nice set of conclusions you’ve jumped to. I didn’t say anything like what you are attributing to me. FreeBSD has their reasons and expression of the “don’t be a dick” rule, and SQLite has their reasons and expression of the same rule. I don’t see why either one is worth carping about. Both are expressions of cultural values that have nothing to do with the software being produced.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
moocowtruck 8y ago
what does anyone have to do with anything?
catacombs 8y ago
Nothing. You use TempleOS if you want to talk to God.

frou_dh 8y ago

Bad bad man. Goofy documents shall only get the benefit of the doubt if they're brought in by postmodernists.

Traut 8y ago

pure awesomeness

iagovar 8y ago
I agree. I'm enjoying so much the reaction...

keldaris 8y ago

This is a lovely piece of satire given the prevailing obsession with silly CoCs all around.

ahje 8y ago
Replace "God" with "Linus" and "Christ" with "The Linux Kernel Mailing List", and we'll have a decent candidate for a Linux CoC. ;)
julian-klode 8y ago
CoCs are not silly, they solve very important and real problems.
- keldaris 8y ago
  CoCs on their own solve exactly nothing, they're just a tool that's supposed to enable project leadership to solve certain issues more effectively. Whether they actually serve that function is an open question since the practice is still fairly new. I haven't seen any meaningful evidence one way or the other (feel free to provide some). While I'm sympathetic to the argument that sufficiently large projects should, on average, benefit from some degree of formalization of behavioral norms (whether you call it a code of conduct or something else), the recent trend of insisting (often abusively) that every open source project, however small, should adopt this practice is silly, annoying and has obviously caused a backlash in some parts of the open source community, hence this thread.
  - pgeorgi 8y ago
    > since the practice is still fairly new "in tech". The CoC we're discussing here exists - as CoC - for Millenia. An even older example would be the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocratic_Oath https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocratic_Oath, which might have been more appropriate as an example of a "code of work conduct", but "I swear by Apollo the Healer, by Asclepius, by Hygieia, by Panacea, and by all the gods and goddesses" might rub some people the wrong way, including, in this case, sqlite's author.

fatbird 8y ago

> 66. Do not love quarreling I'm seeing a problem here.

candiodari 8y ago
Yeah, us Sparrow-keepers are OFFENDED !

danielvf 8y ago

Note that SQLite is, in it's own words, "Open-Source, not Open-Contribution". SQLite does not accept patches from the public. See https://www.sqlite.org/copyright.html https://www.sqlite.org/copyright.html Looking at the commit history for the project, all of the commits for 2018 have been from just three people (with 98% of those coming from just two of those).

crispyambulance 8y ago

Of course it is satirical but I think people forget that the CoC's that been gaining traction lately are themselves a response to a real problem. Yes, some CoC's may be fodder for satire and criticism because they cross the line when it comes to being excessively dogmatic. However, these things exist because online communities have been beset by hordes of assholes for a very long time. Many people feel excluded or are dismissed just because some jerk manages to wield a measure of virtual power. It would be a mistake to move in the reverse direction now and abandon CoC's. If they're not working, perhaps change them or try something else, but the problem needs to be addressed.

julian-klode 8y ago
The SQLite folks are saying that code of conducts are irrelevant. Hence, they are saying that the problems solved by CoCs do not exists, or are not problems. This is a disgusting move and we need to make sure to react appropriately by not using sqlite and fossil and other software these people created.
- zzzcpan 8y ago
  They are not irrelevant, they are actively harmful. We need to ridicule code of conducts more before this gets out of hand.
- pgeorgi 8y ago
  > The SQLite folks are saying that code of conducts are irrelevant. Did they? It's a Code of Conduct for communal matters that was written some 1500 years ago. Given that the Benedictine order still exists, it may well be practiced to this day (not sure if they updated it. I wouldn't see a reason.) Given that there's no larger community around sqlite in the GitHub sense (they usually don't even take patches), and https://twitter.com/drichardhipp https://twitter.com/drichardhipp claims that DRH is Christian, they could as well pick a CoC that matches the family operation that is driving sqlite. The page is rather explicit about not having to adhere to the CoC to _use_ sqlite in any shape or form, and you don't get to _develop_ sqlite anyway, so...

BaldricksGhost 8y ago

While we often confuse religion with the practices of the idiots fawning over politicians here in the US, there is beauty to be found in the wisdom of the ancients on occasion.

sabertoothed 8y ago

That's a joke, right? Right?

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

OldManAndTheCpp 8y ago

It is not obvious that this is satire. Mr Hipp (main contributor) links his homepage at http://www.hwaci.com/drh/ http://www.hwaci.com/drh/. From that page, he links his wife (Mrs. Wyrick): http://www.hwaci.com/ggw/index.html http://www.hwaci.com/ggw/index.html. She has among her interests: http://www.hwaci.com/ggw/allerton.pdf http://www.hwaci.com/ggw/allerton.pdf "Church Music Resources". As mentioned elsewhere in this thread: SQLite is "Open-Source, not Open-Contribution". In that context, an openly religious CoC does not seem out of the question.

cholantesh 8y ago
We don't need to rely on this circumstance. We can point directly to Hipp's own words: https://twitter.com/DRichardHipp/status/1054360847319994368?s=19 https://twitter.com/DRichardHipp/status/1054360847319994368?...

mohammedbin 8y ago

Dang why is this flagged? Also as a muslim, it's very amusing to me that there are people who are fighting for me without my asking them and yet them telling me and other muslim it's bad. It's hilarious what the politically programmed noise-makers think of themselves.

katastic 8y ago
The same way they never ask me, a disabled person, what I think. I'm only to be trotted out for tear votes. I am to be seen, not heard. My opinion is irrelevant.
atom-morgan 8y ago
"Politics* isn't allowed on HN" *right-leaning

kchoudhu 8y ago

Hell, I'm a Muslim and I'd sign on to this CoC without hesitation.