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Transparency is good and all, but there is anther way. In most advanced economies professional bureaucracy figures out the costs. Ordinary folks focus on gettin
by valas 8y ago
Transparency is good and all, but there is anther way. In most advanced economies professional bureaucracy figures out the costs. Ordinary folks focus on getting healthy, not on costs.
- lj3 8y ago> In most advanced economies professional bureaucracy figures out the costs. This works terribly for most advanced economies, Britain and Canada in particular.
- ori_b 8y agoAs a Canadian living in the USA, I can say that it works less terribly than the American alternative.
- lj3 8y agoNot if you have cancer. https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/health-care-wait-times-hit-20-weeks-in-2016-report-1.3171718 https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/health-care-wait-times-hit-20-...
- ori_b 8y agoAgain, I have lived there, and the numbers seem on the upper end of plausible for non-essential surgery like breast reduction, but extremely bogus for anything important. A day or two was normal for routine treatments. The official government figures, where about half of patients get care within 24 hours, and about 90% within 48, are much more in line with my experience.
- lj3 8y agoI know someone personally who had to wait months to see somebody. He said screw it and came to the states for care instead (dual citizenship). He was able to see a specialist immediately and found out he was grossly misdiagnosed.
- ori_b 8y agoAnd I know people in the USA who have gone to Canada or India for medical tourism because they could not get good care at an affordable price in the USA. But these are anecdotes. When you look at the stats aggregated by OECD, Canada is indeed among the worst public health services in the developed world, but it still provides better care to the median earner than the US health system, at half the aggregated cost per capita.
- lj3 8y agoNever once have I heard of an American going to Canada for medical tourism. I live on the Ontario/NY border and have my whole life. I'm sorely disappointed in your arguments so far. Your stats support your point and are legitimate but mine are not. Typical liberal nonsense.
- Latteland 8y agoJust search for it on Google, you'll find dozens of news articles.
- ori_b 8y agoI agree, my stats are in line with what I and my family have experienced, and yours are not. Combine that with multiple agencies such as Health Canada and OECD which have measured wait times an order of magnitude lower than you cited, I am not sure what else to say.
- boomboomsubban 8y agoThe governments stats basically have to be kept. Running the system requires all of the necessary data to already be collected for other purposes, and their stats are drawn from that. The stats you provide are collected by an institute looking to further their ideology. They come from a far smaller data pool,and their collection method seems rather suspect. For example, they're asking the actual practitioner rather than anyone involved in scheduling.
- 8y ago
- gilaniali 8y agoThe Fraser institute, which published this study, has a right wing bias and is funded by the Koch Brothers. It seeks to displace the public system in Canada with private healthcare modelled after the US. While they claim independence and give their research away freely, one should be aware of their interests.
- lj3 8y agoProof?
- ori_b 8y agohttps://www.cbc.ca/news/world/koch-brothers-dark-money-republican-party-1.3466477 https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/koch-brothers-dark-money-repub... https://www.vancouverobserver.com/politics/charitable-fraser-institute-received-43-million-foreign-funding-2000 https://www.vancouverobserver.com/politics/charitable-fraser...
- lj3 8y agoNeither of those links are proof that the study is invalid. So, once again, proof?
- ori_b 8y agoRead again. The original posters claim was that the study was funded by foreign money that pushes an agenda, not that it was invalid. As to the invalidity: The fact that I have never waited for more than a couple of days for treatment in over 25 years, and neither had anyone I know (with 2 exceptions, both of which were for elective surgery like breast reduction surgery) does imply that, at best, their median measurement is measuring a specific niche, rather than general treatment. Combine that with the fact that multiple agencies have measures wait times as being an order of magnitude lower than your source, and yes, I do think your numbers are invalid.
- lj3 8y ago
- DanBC 8y agoThe fact you think Britain has a single NHS doesn't inspire confidence in your level of knowledge, but let's hear it: why is the system so poor in the UK?
- lj3 8y ago> The fact you think Britain has a single NHS doesn't inspire confidence in your level of knowledge Can you point me to where I say that? You've just killed any potential discussion by arguing in bad faith. Why should I listen to anything you have to say on the subject now that I know your intentions are hostile and that you're not open to debate?
- DanBC 8y agoYour inability to provide any examples has been noted.