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I have had my eye on Portugal for a number of years, but there are a few things that seem less than ideal. * Cost of living for a good quality of life still be
by mhjas 8y ago
I have had my eye on Portugal for a number of years, but there are a few things that seem less than ideal.
* Cost of living for a good quality of life still being relatively high or rising, especially in Lisbon and other tourist/expat areas. And a second tier city in Portugal is much less of a clear choice since that is comparable to a lot more places.
* The tax system being very complicated. One can always argue about how much tax to pay, but few people want a complicated tax system, especially not as a foreigner. (And is usually an indication that other systems are complicated as well).
* The tech scene not really happening. Despite the usual "next Silicon Valley" it doesn't really stand out from anywhere else as far as I can tell.
There might certainly be things I don't see, but at least initially it doesn't seem like Portugal rise above the competition to the extent that you wouldn't have to consider quite a few other options.
- nik736 8y agoI agree with you regarding the cost of living but the tax system is similar to a lot of other countries within the EU.
- newintellectual 8y agoWhile earthquakes are a worldwide risk, not all risks are equal. Anyone pondering living in Lisbon should become familiar with the history of the city and the seismic events which affected it - i.e., that the city was pretty much totally annihilated in 1755 by a large quake and tsunami. That threat is still there. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1755_Lisbon_earthquake https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1755_Lisbon_earthquake
- pteraspidomorph 8y agoPortugal has a complicated tax system? I always thought it was fairly simple compared to how certain foreigners describe theirs.
- arijo 8y agoThe tech scene in Lisbon and Porto IS happening - just take a look at companies like Farfetch, Outsystems, Talkdesk, Feedzai, Unbabel and many other smaller startups w/their HQ based in Portugal. I myself work at a Porto based startup (Bottlebooks) w/American and Slovak founders. Portugal has everything going for it to be the California of Europe - highly educated (and english speaking) youth and a will to conquer the world. We welcome any foreigner willing to work hard and contribute to a creating a great place to live :)
- jayalpha 8y agoCalifornia or Florida of Europe? * highly educated Universities are not very good. * and english speaking Don't they speak Portuguese? *youth and a will to conquer the world. Unlikely. And Silicon Valley is not about guys with laptops creating some websites. It is all about high tech, top universities, supply chains and synergy effects. You may be able to to a technology heavy start-up in the UK, Germany, China, Japan, Korea but in Portugal this is difficult. You lack the industrial supply chain of customized high tech products. Just working on your laptop you can also do in Kenya (which actually is quite innovative in IT).
- goliatone 8y agoYou left out the most important reason most “next SV” will have a hard time getting there: VC money. Maybe Lisbon can be a different kind of tech hub, not necessarily a copy/version of SV.
- arijo 8y agoGo away troll - Portugal has been growing strong in terms of its people's education and consequent modernisation for the last 20 years and there's nothing you can do about it, so if you've got nothing useful to say: get out of the way and let the Portuguese people show the world how a great country is re-built from the destruction created by more than 50 years of fascist dictatorship.
- jayalpha 8y agoI am not trolling. I love portugal. But it is not a tech hub and I don't see it being one. IT? Maybe. But for high-tech you need the supply chains. If I call a random B2B supplier and ask "Can you do X?" they often answer: "X? we can do better!" And this is where opportunities open. Portugal is a nice place. Nice people. But too little high tech, too much debt, demography problems etc. " destruction created by more than 50 years of fascist dictatorship." Not aware how much damage this created. The Portuguese empire was not important before the dictatorship anymore, so not sure how much time you really lost. But PT has many good things. I wish RE was cheaper in Lisbon and I would buy immediately.
- jonathanstrange 8y agoI don't understand the comment about the tax system. Which taxes are you talking about? As I've said in another comment, IRS is literally filling out an online app for 5 minutes - and all relevant entries are already pre-filled. It's very easy and simple. As for companies, my girlfriend works at a company run by two Germans and they basically hire an accountant to do the paperwork every year. It's pretty cheap. For a larger company, you'd have to hire a local to do the accounting, though. Maybe I'm missing something because I don't run my own company, bear in mind that hiring freelancers is cheap here.
- mhjas 8y agoFreelancing, starting companies and the NHR scheme (which is sort of an exception but still) seems to have a lot of deductions, conditions and exceptions that require more guidance than some other countries. Maybe this is something one adapts to, but it still seems like an initial hurdle for foreigners.
- niccolop 8y agoSpain offers you a mixture of international cities, and technology hubs. There will never be another "Silicon Valley", but as an alternative where you can find stimulating and rewarding work, I'd argue it's better than Portugal.
- nik736 8y ago> I'd argue it's better than Portugal. Why is it better?
- jayalpha 8y agoI prefer Portuguese people since I speak Portuguese and Portuguese are much more welcoming and friendly. This could change with overtourism which also makes Lisbon comparably expensive. Spain is more diverse and still has cheap big cities. Cheaper than Lisbon.
- mixmastamyk 8y agoHas the smoking situation improved any? Remember a lot of it indoors in Iberia.
- fredoliveira 8y agoSmoking indoors is highly regulated now (thankfully).
- mixmastamyk 8y agoThe next question to that is do people comply with them? From your tone, I'm guessing yes.
- baby 8y agoNone is is better. Both are great.
- niccolop 8y ago