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Princeton Blockchain Reading Group

20 points by mountsbay 8y ago

danaos 8y ago
After years of debating, I still fail to see how the statements "Bitcoin is useless" and "blockchains have potential" can both hold true. For a blockchain to be a blockchain, there must be a token to keep the incentive structure. Otherwise it's no longer a blockchain it's a simple database that will naturally be centralized due to economies of scale.
- sandworm101 8y ago
  Blockchains can be run without incentives. They can be run internally by a large organization. Take the US military. I could see each service running a server to verify changes to a ledger of national orders. An effort to change the ledger would be possible but very difficult, demanding cross-branch conspiracy. Such a scheme could exist without incentives.
  - pvg 8y ago
    Why would a highly hierarchical, centralized organization with extensive infrastructure for distributing and authenticating orders suddenly blockchain it all up to solve a problem (cross-branch conspiracy) they don't at all have?
    - sandworm101 8y ago
      To protect against outsiders inserting false orders to one branch. Or to provide a record of past orders.
      - pvg 8y ago
        Right, but they seem to do that pretty well as it is. The Sixth Fleet rarely ends up in Antarctica because of an air force prank.
  - biggels 8y ago
    I think you just described the federal reserve.
  - PretzelPirate 8y ago
    Instead of saying “without incentives”, maybe saying “with external incentives” is better? Blockchains can function when each participant running a node is incentivized to be honest. The incentive could be that they are a known party in a business consortium and if caught colluding with other members, it would be trvivial to prove during a lawsuit.
- yumraj 8y ago
  One potential scenario: in an industry, with a problem that can be solved by blockchain, the various participants can come together to create the blockchain infrastructure to solve that problem. They don't need a crypto currency to incentivize the participants as their motivation is driven by the solution to the problem.

20 points by mountsbay 8y ago

After years of debating, I still fail to see how the statements "Bitcoin is useless" and "blockchains have potential" can both hold true. For a blockchain to be a blockchain, there must be a token to keep the incentive structure. Otherwise it's no longer a blockchain it's a simple database that will naturally be centralized due to economies of scale.

sandworm101 8y ago
Blockchains can be run without incentives. They can be run internally by a large organization. Take the US military. I could see each service running a server to verify changes to a ledger of national orders. An effort to change the ledger would be possible but very difficult, demanding cross-branch conspiracy. Such a scheme could exist without incentives.
- pvg 8y ago
  Why would a highly hierarchical, centralized organization with extensive infrastructure for distributing and authenticating orders suddenly blockchain it all up to solve a problem (cross-branch conspiracy) they don't at all have?
  - sandworm101 8y ago
    To protect against outsiders inserting false orders to one branch. Or to provide a record of past orders.
    - pvg 8y ago
      Right, but they seem to do that pretty well as it is. The Sixth Fleet rarely ends up in Antarctica because of an air force prank.
- biggels 8y ago
  I think you just described the federal reserve.
- PretzelPirate 8y ago
  Instead of saying “without incentives”, maybe saying “with external incentives” is better? Blockchains can function when each participant running a node is incentivized to be honest. The incentive could be that they are a known party in a business consortium and if caught colluding with other members, it would be trvivial to prove during a lawsuit.
yumraj 8y ago
One potential scenario: in an industry, with a problem that can be solved by blockchain, the various participants can come together to create the blockchain infrastructure to solve that problem. They don't need a crypto currency to incentivize the participants as their motivation is driven by the solution to the problem.