4 ms·

"The plural of anecdote is not data." Then present some data other than a wikipedia article which doesn't appear to support your case.

by sofon 8y ago

jimmywanger 8y ago
The wikipedia article indicates that as recently as 2007, the Prime Minister of Japan did not believe that the Japanese government seized the comfort women by force[0]. When we riot over Confederate statues, and yet we're ok with their government officials visiting shrines which celebrate war criminals[1]? Of course the United States is not blameless. We gave amnesty to the leaders of Camp 731 in exchange for experimental knowledge and the Tuskegee experiments are of course unforgivable. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comfort_women#History_of_the_issue https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comfort_women#History_of_the_i... [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasukuni_Shrine#Post-war_issues_and_controversies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasukuni_Shrine#Post-war_issue...
- sofon 8y ago
  You're talking about the Japanese PM, and it's possible to make a case that current and past PMs have been racist. That's not the same as saying that the population in general are racist and Asians are oppressed i.e.: "if you're Asian and not Japanese, they look down on you. Read about ethnic Koreans in Japan and how they're oppressed" So... data that shows that non-Japanese Asians are oppressed in Japan? On top of that, is there data that shows that racism in Japan is quantitatively worse than other countries?
  - jimmywanger 8y ago
    I don't know about quantitatively worse. But if you look here, a UN rep stated that Japanese racism "primarily affects three groups: national minorities, descendants of former Japanese colonies, and foreigners from other Asian countries"[0]. He also said that racism was "deep and profound." This was in 2005. We're (United States) still trying to get rid of racism, even after the civil rights movement of 1950. Racism doesn't go away after 12 years. Which goes back to my ORIGINAL POINT which is that if you're a non-Japanese Asian in Japan, you got nothing coming. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_issues_in_Japan#Comment_by_U.N._special_rapporteur_on_racism_and_xenophobia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_issues_in_Japan#Comment...
    - sofon 8y ago
      ok, so... no data then, just a series of quotes and observations about individuals. I'd honestly be interested in learning about racism in Japan, and if it is different/worse than other countries. But all that's been presented is anecdotes.
      - jimmywanger 8y ago
        I cited wikipedia and a UN observer. What else do you want as data? Survey data? Who would answer a survey asking if you were racist, specifically if you're racist towards certain ethnic groups? What are you realistically asking for that will change your mind?
        sofon 8y ago
        Yes, survey data. And to be clear, the world value survey has asked questions covering racism. In particular: "Would you accept someone of a different race as a neighbour?" and "How often do you see racist behaviour in your neighbourhood?" You could also look at mobility of foreign workers of as opposed to native workers of a similar background. Unfortunately the world value survey results don't really support your case. You'd want the racism broken down by ethnicity I guess if you believe that the Japanese are particularly racist against other Asians. The refugee figures help support the idea that Japan is more racist (Japan accept far fewer refugees than other countries), but as this is a political issue, rather than based on the reaction of individual Japanese people, it's harder to draw conclusions from this. But yes, I don't really find a comment by an individual, or unquantified data from wikipedia very compelling.
        Regardsyjc 8y ago
        I think xenophobia is a great marker for racism. Here's a wiki article for racism and xenophobia in South Korea: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_South_Korea https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_South_Korea
        8y ago

"The plural of anecdote is not data." Then present some data other than a wikipedia article which doesn't appear to support your case.

by sofon 8y ago

"The plural of anecdote is not data." Then present some data other than a wikipedia article which doesn't appear to support your case.

jimmywanger 8y ago

The wikipedia article indicates that as recently as 2007, the Prime Minister of Japan did not believe that the Japanese government seized the comfort women by force[0]. When we riot over Confederate statues, and yet we're ok with their government officials visiting shrines which celebrate war criminals[1]? Of course the United States is not blameless. We gave amnesty to the leaders of Camp 731 in exchange for experimental knowledge and the Tuskegee experiments are of course unforgivable. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comfort_women#History_of_the_issue https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comfort_women#History_of_the_i... [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasukuni_Shrine#Post-war_issues_and_controversies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasukuni_Shrine#Post-war_issue...

sofon 8y ago
You're talking about the Japanese PM, and it's possible to make a case that current and past PMs have been racist. That's not the same as saying that the population in general are racist and Asians are oppressed i.e.: "if you're Asian and not Japanese, they look down on you. Read about ethnic Koreans in Japan and how they're oppressed" So... data that shows that non-Japanese Asians are oppressed in Japan? On top of that, is there data that shows that racism in Japan is quantitatively worse than other countries?
- jimmywanger 8y ago
  I don't know about quantitatively worse. But if you look here, a UN rep stated that Japanese racism "primarily affects three groups: national minorities, descendants of former Japanese colonies, and foreigners from other Asian countries"[0]. He also said that racism was "deep and profound." This was in 2005. We're (United States) still trying to get rid of racism, even after the civil rights movement of 1950. Racism doesn't go away after 12 years. Which goes back to my ORIGINAL POINT which is that if you're a non-Japanese Asian in Japan, you got nothing coming. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_issues_in_Japan#Comment_by_U.N._special_rapporteur_on_racism_and_xenophobia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_issues_in_Japan#Comment...
  - sofon 8y ago
    ok, so... no data then, just a series of quotes and observations about individuals. I'd honestly be interested in learning about racism in Japan, and if it is different/worse than other countries. But all that's been presented is anecdotes.
    - jimmywanger 8y ago
      I cited wikipedia and a UN observer. What else do you want as data? Survey data? Who would answer a survey asking if you were racist, specifically if you're racist towards certain ethnic groups? What are you realistically asking for that will change your mind?
      - sofon 8y ago
        Yes, survey data. And to be clear, the world value survey has asked questions covering racism. In particular: "Would you accept someone of a different race as a neighbour?" and "How often do you see racist behaviour in your neighbourhood?" You could also look at mobility of foreign workers of as opposed to native workers of a similar background. Unfortunately the world value survey results don't really support your case. You'd want the racism broken down by ethnicity I guess if you believe that the Japanese are particularly racist against other Asians. The refugee figures help support the idea that Japan is more racist (Japan accept far fewer refugees than other countries), but as this is a political issue, rather than based on the reaction of individual Japanese people, it's harder to draw conclusions from this. But yes, I don't really find a comment by an individual, or unquantified data from wikipedia very compelling.
        Regardsyjc 8y ago
        I think xenophobia is a great marker for racism. Here's a wiki article for racism and xenophobia in South Korea: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_South_Korea https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_South_Korea
        8y ago