5 ms·

Why is this scientific publication using such magical language?

bdcravens 8y ago
What magical language are you opposed to? The term "ritual" is pretty well defined: "Rituals are series of steps we take while attaching some kind of symbolic meaning." In the article, they link to multiple papers they've written on the topic of rituals, as well as quantify their results in the experiment they performed: "About 58% of the participants in our ritual condition chose the carrot over the chocolate, as compared to only about 35% of those in the control condition and 46% of those in the random-gestures condition." As the article is in the magazine's "Behavior & Society" section the science in the article seems cogent.
- windows_tips 8y ago
  I never said I was opposed. Both "ritual" and "vexing" are magical language.
  - ksenzee 8y ago
    Sorry, in what way are "ritual" and "vexing" magical language? They are both English words in relatively wide use.
    - windows_tips 8y ago
      In what way are they not? Magical language can be in very wide use. I think one of the top grossing authors has written an entire series about magic.
      - bdcravens 8y ago
        From the article: "Many of our most vexing problems, from overeating to not saving enough for retirement to not working out enough have something in common: lack of self-control." The definition of the word: "make (someone) feel annoyed, frustrated, or worried, especially with trivial matters" Still not seeing the magical connotation; seems pretty well grounded in human behavior, which is topical for Scientific American.
      - ghostbrainalpha 8y ago
        "I think one of the top grossing authors has written an entire series about magic." Wait.... what? Are you talking about Harry Potter? It's hard to tell if you started as serious but are now becoming a parody troll account.
  - gms7777 8y ago
    'Ritual' can be used in religious or magical contexts, but is not inherently magical and is routinely used in other contexts. I don't actually know of any magical connotations for 'vexing', except that it sounds somewhat like 'hexing'.
    - windows_tips 8y ago
      It's routinely used in some magical contexts. Vexing things are mysterious, which is often an object of magical displays.
  - svat 8y ago
    "vexing" is defined as "annoying, worrying, or causing problems" [1]. I have encountered the word hundreds of times, but until your comment I wasn't aware that it was used in a magical context too. If you look up a linguistics corpus like the Corpus of Contemporary American English [2] or the British National Corpus [3] -- visit those sites, search for "vexing", and click on "VEXING" again -- you'll see a representative set of usages of the word "in the wild", and none of them appear to have anything to do with magic. There's also something in C++ called the "most vexing parse" [4], which too doesn't seem to have anything to do with magic. (By the way, you may like to try this exercise with "ritual" too, to see how the word is used in practice.) [1]: https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/vexing https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/vexin... [2]: https://corpus.byu.edu/coca/ https://corpus.byu.edu/coca/ [3]: https://corpus.byu.edu/bnc/ https://corpus.byu.edu/bnc/ [4]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Most_vexing_parse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Most_vexing_parse
    - windows_tips 8y ago
      If you search the Authorized King James Version of the Bible you will find this[0] passage: >And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil. [0] https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=matthew+15%3A22&version=AKJV https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=matthew+15%3A22... It is deep in the literature that vexation is a domain of devils.
      - phyzome 8y ago
        Is "grevious" in the domain of devils, too? Begone, you.
        windows_tips 8y ago
        I'm not sure, but from this context, it would seem that possibly, if "vexing" is also in the domain of others as well (seems so). >Begone, you. Not very welcoming around here?
JTxt 8y ago
Rituals can come before scientific knowledge, like cleaning.
- windows_tips 8y ago
  Anything can come before scientific knowledge.
phyzome 8y ago
"Ritual" is a word with a variety of connotations. Note that a marriage ceremony is a ritual. That's an everyday use of the word that I don't think you would have objected to or called magical. Then there's the academic definition, covered elsewhere in this thread.
- windows_tips 8y ago
  Many people think marriage ceremonies are magical, I think.
danharaj 8y ago
Brushing your teeth in the morning is a ritual. Shaking hands with everyone before starting a meeting is a ritual. Tucking your kid into bed is a ritual.
- windows_tips 8y ago
  >Brushing your teeth in the morning is a ritual. Repeated event, but presumably done for your benefit. >Shaking hands with everyone before starting a meeting is a ritual. Not usually done in most corporate meetings I've been to. >Tucking your kid into bed is a ritual. I suppose it could be, but I guess I'm not sure what you mean by 'ritual' anymore.
dang 8y ago
Could you please stop posting unsubstantive comments to Hacker News?
- windows_tips 8y ago
  I don't get why you think comments that generate conversation are "unsubstantive".
  - dang 8y ago
    On HN the idea is to value quality above quantity.
    - windows_tips 8y ago
      On the whole, this account seems to have provided that to HN, according to its own karma metric.

What magical language are you opposed to? The term "ritual" is pretty well defined: "Rituals are series of steps we take while attaching some kind of symbolic meaning." In the article, they link to multiple papers they've written on the topic of rituals, as well as quantify their results in the experiment they performed: "About 58% of the participants in our ritual condition chose the carrot over the chocolate, as compared to only about 35% of those in the control condition and 46% of those in the random-gestures condition." As the article is in the magazine's "Behavior & Society" section the science in the article seems cogent.

windows_tips 8y ago
I never said I was opposed. Both "ritual" and "vexing" are magical language.
- ksenzee 8y ago
  Sorry, in what way are "ritual" and "vexing" magical language? They are both English words in relatively wide use.
  - windows_tips 8y ago
    In what way are they not? Magical language can be in very wide use. I think one of the top grossing authors has written an entire series about magic.
    - bdcravens 8y ago
      From the article: "Many of our most vexing problems, from overeating to not saving enough for retirement to not working out enough have something in common: lack of self-control." The definition of the word: "make (someone) feel annoyed, frustrated, or worried, especially with trivial matters" Still not seeing the magical connotation; seems pretty well grounded in human behavior, which is topical for Scientific American.
    - ghostbrainalpha 8y ago
      "I think one of the top grossing authors has written an entire series about magic." Wait.... what? Are you talking about Harry Potter? It's hard to tell if you started as serious but are now becoming a parody troll account.
- gms7777 8y ago
  'Ritual' can be used in religious or magical contexts, but is not inherently magical and is routinely used in other contexts. I don't actually know of any magical connotations for 'vexing', except that it sounds somewhat like 'hexing'.
  - windows_tips 8y ago
    It's routinely used in some magical contexts. Vexing things are mysterious, which is often an object of magical displays.
- svat 8y ago
  "vexing" is defined as "annoying, worrying, or causing problems" [1]. I have encountered the word hundreds of times, but until your comment I wasn't aware that it was used in a magical context too. If you look up a linguistics corpus like the Corpus of Contemporary American English [2] or the British National Corpus [3] -- visit those sites, search for "vexing", and click on "VEXING" again -- you'll see a representative set of usages of the word "in the wild", and none of them appear to have anything to do with magic. There's also something in C++ called the "most vexing parse" [4], which too doesn't seem to have anything to do with magic. (By the way, you may like to try this exercise with "ritual" too, to see how the word is used in practice.) [1]: https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/vexing https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/vexin... [2]: https://corpus.byu.edu/coca/ https://corpus.byu.edu/coca/ [3]: https://corpus.byu.edu/bnc/ https://corpus.byu.edu/bnc/ [4]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Most_vexing_parse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Most_vexing_parse
  - windows_tips 8y ago
    If you search the Authorized King James Version of the Bible you will find this[0] passage: >And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil. [0] https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=matthew+15%3A22&version=AKJV https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=matthew+15%3A22... It is deep in the literature that vexation is a domain of devils.
    - phyzome 8y ago
      Is "grevious" in the domain of devils, too? Begone, you.
      - windows_tips 8y ago
        I'm not sure, but from this context, it would seem that possibly, if "vexing" is also in the domain of others as well (seems so). >Begone, you. Not very welcoming around here?

JTxt 8y ago

Rituals can come before scientific knowledge, like cleaning.

windows_tips 8y ago
Anything can come before scientific knowledge.

phyzome 8y ago

"Ritual" is a word with a variety of connotations. Note that a marriage ceremony is a ritual. That's an everyday use of the word that I don't think you would have objected to or called magical. Then there's the academic definition, covered elsewhere in this thread.

windows_tips 8y ago
Many people think marriage ceremonies are magical, I think.

danharaj 8y ago

Brushing your teeth in the morning is a ritual. Shaking hands with everyone before starting a meeting is a ritual. Tucking your kid into bed is a ritual.

windows_tips 8y ago
>Brushing your teeth in the morning is a ritual. Repeated event, but presumably done for your benefit. >Shaking hands with everyone before starting a meeting is a ritual. Not usually done in most corporate meetings I've been to. >Tucking your kid into bed is a ritual. I suppose it could be, but I guess I'm not sure what you mean by 'ritual' anymore.

dang 8y ago

Could you please stop posting unsubstantive comments to Hacker News?

windows_tips 8y ago
I don't get why you think comments that generate conversation are "unsubstantive".
- dang 8y ago
  On HN the idea is to value quality above quantity.
  - windows_tips 8y ago
    On the whole, this account seems to have provided that to HN, according to its own karma metric.