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It's amazing that a company that Paul Graham co-founded is getting into bed with an authoritarian government notorious for its human rights abuses. To succeed i

It's amazing that a company that Paul Graham co-founded is getting into bed with an authoritarian government notorious for its human rights abuses. To succeed in China you can't go against the government. So is he going to be pushing as hard for political change in China as he is in the US, or will he remain silent as his company reaps the profits?

singularity2001 8y ago
Believing in his good morals, the underlying hope might be to achieve change through subversion: If YC becomes popular in in China, people might visit news.ycombinator.com and find very sane liberal thinking and many shocking truths about their country.
- enwa 8y ago
  Much more likely that anything negative about China will be deemed political, like many other subjects have been in the past, and flagged off the site. That is largely how the Chinese Internet works anyways.
- ebbv 8y ago
  Not gonna happen. This site would be banned or censored.
- zavi 8y ago
  Ah yes, the superior thinking of top minds that frequent news.ycombinator.com
- bitcurious 8y ago
  Reddit was blocked by the Chinese firewall this month. The suspected reason is discussion of the Uyghur concentration camps. Shocking truths don’t last on the Chinese internet. When YC is invested in China they won’t last on this website either.
  - pl1234 8y ago
    They already don't last.
omarforgotpwd 8y ago
There are a billion MORE people in China than in the US. There is enormous industry and innovation there. China's government is terrible but that is their issue to resolve. All we can do is speak out, but refusing to do business hurts Chinese and American people far more than it hurts the Chinese government. Our government kills many innocent people accidentally as part of the normal course of war, but we consider it an acceptable place to do business anyway.
- scandox 8y ago
  I'm sure that some more fully articulated and sophisticated version of what you've said forms the basis of YC's decision to continue pragmatically pursuing its goal of being big and important (and incidentally making lots of money).
  - omarforgotpwd 8y ago
    What, I'm not sophisticated and articulate at 3 AM? ;)
    - scandox 8y ago
      They've just had a hell of a long time to polish their excuses :)
  - enwa 8y ago
    That is very unlikely. When you start or own businesses in China you largely give up the right to criticize the Chinese government. Not only because you have to deal with the Chinese government, but because you won't have any credibility left at home. You can't on the one hand argue that the Chinese government is oppressive and on the other that it is practical to change peoples minds.
- vasco 8y ago
  One accidentally breaks an egg. One doesn't "accidentally" kill innocent people because they "accidentally" launched a missile to an area where civilians are.
hkmurakami 8y ago
Is pg really even involved much in the direction of YC anymore?
thiago_fm 8y ago
as If the US was any good
AJ007 8y ago
I would like to see a statement that YC China will not discriminate based on ethnicity, gender, religion, or sexual orientation and more importantly will not support startups which create technology which make doing so easier.
- chimeracoder 8y ago
  > I would like to see a statement that YC China will not discriminate based on ethnicity, gender, religion, or sexual orientation and more importantly will not support startups which create technology which make doing so easier. I too would like to see this, but no such statement exists for YC at large (outside China) either.
jjcc 8y ago
If you admire PG as I do, please read an essay from PG again: http://www.paulgraham.com/identity.html http://www.paulgraham.com/identity.html I believe Paul Graham knows better than average American about China. I appraise him, not for his move as a venture capitalist who want to make money (Many people who share your belief think he is cynical and only thinking about making money, which might be part of the reason), but quite opposite , for his moral courage against prevailed belief of Mob which is the same evil as authoritarian region's. Politics is often compared to religion but it's actually worse: many religion believer can keep their belief private but in politics most "belief oriented people" are not aware of they don't differentiate their opinions/beliefs from facts. This can radicalize many opposite side people knowing the truth. Eventually this cognitive defect of modern human being caused conflicts all over the world. Even here in HN, I've seen quite a few radicalized HNer's beaned by dang (the moderator of HN) due to their misbehave that were (mistakenly) considered to be caused by strong nationalist views. I would suggest all HNer's keep political view private as much as possible if totally avoidance is not piratical.
claydavisss 8y ago
why do you think any of these companies and VCs care about anything but $$$? why is Qi Lu required to push for "political change"? is he supposed to share your views? that same regime built your phone, so why not lead by example?
DanielGee 8y ago
Companies exist to make money. I think the tech community's biggest mistake was assuming that tech companies are moral agents. Of course tech companies ( "do no evil" ) had a hand in misleading us. But tech companies are no different than oil companies, pharma companies or movie studios. They want market share and money. Maybe we should stop putting tech companies and tech leaders on a pedestal.
- carapace 8y ago
  Or we should accept that there's no magic get-out-of-moral-obligations card issued to them when they become agents of a business? There's this weird rationalization that somehow a person becomes immune to moral considerations when they accept a job as a corporate executive. I don't that's true. And I don't think most businessmen think that's true either. I'm pretty sure Warren Buffet doesn't think that's true.
erikb 8y ago
If he wants goverment support he probably is stealing IP from the american side and YC is either naive or knows this very well but is willing to trade IP for cashflow.

singularity2001 8y ago

Believing in his good morals, the underlying hope might be to achieve change through subversion: If YC becomes popular in in China, people might visit news.ycombinator.com and find very sane liberal thinking and many shocking truths about their country.

enwa 8y ago
Much more likely that anything negative about China will be deemed political, like many other subjects have been in the past, and flagged off the site. That is largely how the Chinese Internet works anyways.
ebbv 8y ago
Not gonna happen. This site would be banned or censored.
zavi 8y ago
Ah yes, the superior thinking of top minds that frequent news.ycombinator.com
bitcurious 8y ago
Reddit was blocked by the Chinese firewall this month. The suspected reason is discussion of the Uyghur concentration camps. Shocking truths don’t last on the Chinese internet. When YC is invested in China they won’t last on this website either.
- pl1234 8y ago
  They already don't last.

omarforgotpwd 8y ago

There are a billion MORE people in China than in the US. There is enormous industry and innovation there. China's government is terrible but that is their issue to resolve. All we can do is speak out, but refusing to do business hurts Chinese and American people far more than it hurts the Chinese government. Our government kills many innocent people accidentally as part of the normal course of war, but we consider it an acceptable place to do business anyway.

scandox 8y ago
I'm sure that some more fully articulated and sophisticated version of what you've said forms the basis of YC's decision to continue pragmatically pursuing its goal of being big and important (and incidentally making lots of money).
- omarforgotpwd 8y ago
  What, I'm not sophisticated and articulate at 3 AM? ;)
  - scandox 8y ago
    They've just had a hell of a long time to polish their excuses :)
- enwa 8y ago
  That is very unlikely. When you start or own businesses in China you largely give up the right to criticize the Chinese government. Not only because you have to deal with the Chinese government, but because you won't have any credibility left at home. You can't on the one hand argue that the Chinese government is oppressive and on the other that it is practical to change peoples minds.
vasco 8y ago
One accidentally breaks an egg. One doesn't "accidentally" kill innocent people because they "accidentally" launched a missile to an area where civilians are.

hkmurakami 8y ago

Is pg really even involved much in the direction of YC anymore?

thiago_fm 8y ago

as If the US was any good

AJ007 8y ago

I would like to see a statement that YC China will not discriminate based on ethnicity, gender, religion, or sexual orientation and more importantly will not support startups which create technology which make doing so easier.

chimeracoder 8y ago
> I would like to see a statement that YC China will not discriminate based on ethnicity, gender, religion, or sexual orientation and more importantly will not support startups which create technology which make doing so easier. I too would like to see this, but no such statement exists for YC at large (outside China) either.

jjcc 8y ago

If you admire PG as I do, please read an essay from PG again: http://www.paulgraham.com/identity.html http://www.paulgraham.com/identity.html I believe Paul Graham knows better than average American about China. I appraise him, not for his move as a venture capitalist who want to make money (Many people who share your belief think he is cynical and only thinking about making money, which might be part of the reason), but quite opposite , for his moral courage against prevailed belief of Mob which is the same evil as authoritarian region's. Politics is often compared to religion but it's actually worse: many religion believer can keep their belief private but in politics most "belief oriented people" are not aware of they don't differentiate their opinions/beliefs from facts. This can radicalize many opposite side people knowing the truth. Eventually this cognitive defect of modern human being caused conflicts all over the world. Even here in HN, I've seen quite a few radicalized HNer's beaned by dang (the moderator of HN) due to their misbehave that were (mistakenly) considered to be caused by strong nationalist views. I would suggest all HNer's keep political view private as much as possible if totally avoidance is not piratical.

claydavisss 8y ago

why do you think any of these companies and VCs care about anything but $$$? why is Qi Lu required to push for "political change"? is he supposed to share your views? that same regime built your phone, so why not lead by example?

DanielGee 8y ago

Companies exist to make money. I think the tech community's biggest mistake was assuming that tech companies are moral agents. Of course tech companies ( "do no evil" ) had a hand in misleading us. But tech companies are no different than oil companies, pharma companies or movie studios. They want market share and money. Maybe we should stop putting tech companies and tech leaders on a pedestal.

carapace 8y ago
Or we should accept that there's no magic get-out-of-moral-obligations card issued to them when they become agents of a business? There's this weird rationalization that somehow a person becomes immune to moral considerations when they accept a job as a corporate executive. I don't that's true. And I don't think most businessmen think that's true either. I'm pretty sure Warren Buffet doesn't think that's true.

erikb 8y ago

If he wants goverment support he probably is stealing IP from the american side and YC is either naive or knows this very well but is willing to trade IP for cashflow.