6 ms·

I am sharing my experience because I know how awful sleep problems can be. I'm in my 30s and eat what many consider a very healthful diet - virtually no sugar,

by dogcow 8y ago

I am sharing my experience because I know how awful sleep problems can be. I'm in my 30s and eat what many consider a very healthful diet - virtually no sugar, just veggies, high quality fats and proteins, and minimal fruit. I spend 7-9 hours in bed; yet wake up feeling exhausted every. single. day. I'd love to exercise, but I'm too continuously tired to get started. Melatonin, when taken via dissolving sublingual tablet (1-3 mg), makes me feel a bit sleepier, but doesn't often keep me asleep through the night. When swallowed via a capsule, it makes me feel like I've been hit by a bus for the entirety of the next day, even if I slept the night before. My own research led me to magnesium glycinate, which helped to some degree (maybe I wasn't taking enough?), but didn't solve the problem. My biggest trouble is falling asleep - I can be dead tired, but as soon as I'm in bed, my mind goes nuts, and I lie awake for hours. Then, by the time my body is in nice deep sleep, it's time to get up, and the deep sleep is disrupted. I recently had an appointment with my physician (who practices integrative medicine and is not your typical MD), and he told me to try a relatively new formulation of magnesium called Magnesium L-Threonate, commercially known as Magtein. It is apparently the best type of magnesium for crossing the blood-brain barrier, and thus, likely the best at addressing sleep issues. I've been on it for about a week now (taking 1000mg 2 hours before bed and 1000mg upon waking in the morning), and have slept better in the last two nights than I have for a long time. Here's to hoping it keeps working! I also use a couple other hacks to help me sleep - at night, about an hour after the sun sets, I wear "blue blocking" glasses (the UVEX S0360X fit nicely over my prescription glasses). Sounds (and looks) goofy, but for me it creates a noticeably stronger "sleep pressure" than I'd experience without them. I also wear a mask over my eyes when sleeping, to block out any ambient light, and I just started making an effort to listen to music while waiting to fall asleep. I think all of these things help to some degree. Also, check out the book "Why We Sleep" by Matthew Walker.

didgeoridoo 8y ago
It’s recommended in Walker’s book so you probably already know about it, but CBTI (cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia) might be a useful intervention for you based on the difficulties you’ve described.
victor106 8y ago
Not sure if minimal fruit counts as a healthy diet
- gotrecruit 8y ago
  fruit is not healthy for you, contrary to what you may have traditionally heard. you can get everything you need, vitamins and minerals wise, from vegetables, without the sugar that comes with fruits.
  - vcjohnson 8y ago
    >fruit is not healthy for you https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/105/6/1462/4569801 https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/105/6/1462/4569801 Fruit consumption is inversely correlated with all-cause mortality as best we can tell. Probably something to be said about people who eat fruits being among the more health minded individuals as well and skewing results but it’s probably not “unhealthy” to eat fruits.
    - dalore 8y ago
      Correlation doesn't mean cause. Otherwise you would draw conclusions like divorce rates in Maine affected by margarine consumption. https://tylervigen.com/view_correlation?id=1703 https://tylervigen.com/view_correlation?id=1703 People consuming fruit could be more healthy individuals in general, exercising and avoiding other types of food which might have more effect than consuming fruit. So be careful about drawing conclusions from correlations or epidemiological studies as you have to consider other possibilities.
      - vcjohnson 8y ago
        But I didn’t imply causation? I literally gave the same “could be skewed due to healthier lifestyle choices” in my comment...
        johnchristopher 8y ago
ukulele 8y ago
What you've just described also sounds a lot like sleep apnea. Healthy, non-snorers can have it so might be worth doing a quick test.
- anonu 8y ago
  Sleep apnea is one of the biggest unsolved problems in medicine. It effects 1 in 4 people and there's no good solution for it. I think this is an area where technology (and not drugs or surgery) can make a big difference.
  - BurningFrog 8y ago
    You're half right. It's very common and very untreated. But for most people, a CPAP machine is a great solution. There are few other serious medical conditions that can be more thoroughly addressed! If you might have it, you really should look into it, there is a good chance your life can be turned around and improved more than you (pun intended) could dream of. Mine was! Modern CPAP machines are quiet, comfortable, and only cover your nostrils. And they can save your life!
    - GW150914 8y ago
      My friend is a terrible snorer, but I noticed one day when he fell asleep on the couch, that he’d stop snoring, then do this big gasping snore. It was really scary actually! I told him about it, he did a sleep study, and he turned out to have bad apnea. A few months of cpap therapy and he’s a new man. He used to pretty much fall asleep any time he sat down and did nothing, he was always tired, he needed a brass band to wake him up. Now he’s full of piss and vinegar, gets more work done, and he’s just a lot happier. The test is apparently easy and you can do it at home with a device you get from your doctor and wear overnight, and his machine fits in the palm of one hand is basically silent. Anyone who thinks this is a possibility for them, I agree with you, get checked!
newnewpdro 8y ago
Do you consume stimulants like caffeine?
vlasev 8y ago
Have you got checked for sleep apnea? Have you tried sleeping elsewhere? On a couch? What about sleeping in a semi-seated position? Would that work? How's your weight? Does it go up or down? Finally, if you are in bed for 30 minutes and you haven't fallen asleep, it's probably way better to either get up and do some stuff or to just accept that you won't be sleeping and just stay there and go through your imagination.
xzel 8y ago
This is going to be a totally anecdotal post: In my twenties I had the same problem when waking up, slept 7-8 hours, worked out, good job, super healthy diet but woke up exhausted, miserable, and borderline depressed 9/10 days. It took two years and lot of blood tests over time but turns out I had Hashimoto's disease, which lead to hypothyroidism. It is rare for someone in their 20s but I guess I beat the odds :), although it dose affect about 5% of the population at some time. My point here is your story seems very similar to mine (i.e possible thyroid issue) so maybe talk to your Dr about the possibility, especially if this has been a long term issue.
- gytdev 8y ago
  I feel the same way brother. And it took me 10 years to diagnose it. Just took one good GP
mtgx 8y ago
Check your Vitamin D levels, just out of curiosity, before giving Vitamin D3 a try. This doctor here says you need to be at 60-80 ng/ml D3 in the blood to get very restful sleep: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xF24xmJQK1k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xF24xmJQK1k Also, D3 and Magnesium work very well together. In fact, if you add more D3, it's going to use-up even more magnesium.
- fossuser 8y ago
  60-80 seems absurd to me considering you’d be unlikely to hit that spending all day outside in the sun topless in Hawaii.
bluedino 8y ago
Try some carbs
cirgue 8y ago
If you haven’t already, try doing an all-day physical activity (all-day hike, bike ride, or some other physical recreational activity) one day a week. For me, that made it a lot easier to start working out more.
dalore 8y ago
Like you, following a very similar diet of high quality animal fats and no carbs (banting). I to would have racing minds when in bed. Best thing I found (and this will sound cliche) is meditation. It's pretty much set for helping racing minds.
kdelok 8y ago
Do you find it easier to fall asleep at other times than when you choose to go to bed? It might be that you have delayed sleep phase syndrome, or (less likely) a non-24 hour sleep phase issue. My partner is non-24 and generally manages a "normal" schedule. However, she sometimes has to roll her sleep, where she'll go to bed an average of 1.5 hours later each day, until she's back to going to bed around 10. When she is holding her sleep schedule steady she uses light goggles in the morning (literally goggles with bright reflected lights on them) and low-dose melatonin at night (can't remember the exact dose). She also watches her meal times relative to when she wants to go to sleep. I think these things would be useful for someone without the non-24 issues, but are good sleep hygiene things.

by dogcow 8y ago

didgeoridoo 8y ago

It’s recommended in Walker’s book so you probably already know about it, but CBTI (cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia) might be a useful intervention for you based on the difficulties you’ve described.

victor106 8y ago

Not sure if minimal fruit counts as a healthy diet

gotrecruit 8y ago
fruit is not healthy for you, contrary to what you may have traditionally heard. you can get everything you need, vitamins and minerals wise, from vegetables, without the sugar that comes with fruits.
- vcjohnson 8y ago
  >fruit is not healthy for you https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/105/6/1462/4569801 https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/105/6/1462/4569801 Fruit consumption is inversely correlated with all-cause mortality as best we can tell. Probably something to be said about people who eat fruits being among the more health minded individuals as well and skewing results but it’s probably not “unhealthy” to eat fruits.
  - dalore 8y ago
    Correlation doesn't mean cause. Otherwise you would draw conclusions like divorce rates in Maine affected by margarine consumption. https://tylervigen.com/view_correlation?id=1703 https://tylervigen.com/view_correlation?id=1703 People consuming fruit could be more healthy individuals in general, exercising and avoiding other types of food which might have more effect than consuming fruit. So be careful about drawing conclusions from correlations or epidemiological studies as you have to consider other possibilities.
    - vcjohnson 8y ago
      But I didn’t imply causation? I literally gave the same “could be skewed due to healthier lifestyle choices” in my comment...
      - johnchristopher 8y ago

ukulele 8y ago

What you've just described also sounds a lot like sleep apnea. Healthy, non-snorers can have it so might be worth doing a quick test.

anonu 8y ago
Sleep apnea is one of the biggest unsolved problems in medicine. It effects 1 in 4 people and there's no good solution for it. I think this is an area where technology (and not drugs or surgery) can make a big difference.
- BurningFrog 8y ago
  You're half right. It's very common and very untreated. But for most people, a CPAP machine is a great solution. There are few other serious medical conditions that can be more thoroughly addressed! If you might have it, you really should look into it, there is a good chance your life can be turned around and improved more than you (pun intended) could dream of. Mine was! Modern CPAP machines are quiet, comfortable, and only cover your nostrils. And they can save your life!
  - GW150914 8y ago
    My friend is a terrible snorer, but I noticed one day when he fell asleep on the couch, that he’d stop snoring, then do this big gasping snore. It was really scary actually! I told him about it, he did a sleep study, and he turned out to have bad apnea. A few months of cpap therapy and he’s a new man. He used to pretty much fall asleep any time he sat down and did nothing, he was always tired, he needed a brass band to wake him up. Now he’s full of piss and vinegar, gets more work done, and he’s just a lot happier. The test is apparently easy and you can do it at home with a device you get from your doctor and wear overnight, and his machine fits in the palm of one hand is basically silent. Anyone who thinks this is a possibility for them, I agree with you, get checked!

newnewpdro 8y ago

Do you consume stimulants like caffeine?

vlasev 8y ago

Have you got checked for sleep apnea? Have you tried sleeping elsewhere? On a couch? What about sleeping in a semi-seated position? Would that work? How's your weight? Does it go up or down? Finally, if you are in bed for 30 minutes and you haven't fallen asleep, it's probably way better to either get up and do some stuff or to just accept that you won't be sleeping and just stay there and go through your imagination.

xzel 8y ago

This is going to be a totally anecdotal post: In my twenties I had the same problem when waking up, slept 7-8 hours, worked out, good job, super healthy diet but woke up exhausted, miserable, and borderline depressed 9/10 days. It took two years and lot of blood tests over time but turns out I had Hashimoto's disease, which lead to hypothyroidism. It is rare for someone in their 20s but I guess I beat the odds :), although it dose affect about 5% of the population at some time. My point here is your story seems very similar to mine (i.e possible thyroid issue) so maybe talk to your Dr about the possibility, especially if this has been a long term issue.

gytdev 8y ago
I feel the same way brother. And it took me 10 years to diagnose it. Just took one good GP

mtgx 8y ago

Check your Vitamin D levels, just out of curiosity, before giving Vitamin D3 a try. This doctor here says you need to be at 60-80 ng/ml D3 in the blood to get very restful sleep: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xF24xmJQK1k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xF24xmJQK1k Also, D3 and Magnesium work very well together. In fact, if you add more D3, it's going to use-up even more magnesium.

fossuser 8y ago
60-80 seems absurd to me considering you’d be unlikely to hit that spending all day outside in the sun topless in Hawaii.

bluedino 8y ago

Try some carbs

cirgue 8y ago

If you haven’t already, try doing an all-day physical activity (all-day hike, bike ride, or some other physical recreational activity) one day a week. For me, that made it a lot easier to start working out more.

dalore 8y ago

Like you, following a very similar diet of high quality animal fats and no carbs (banting). I to would have racing minds when in bed. Best thing I found (and this will sound cliche) is meditation. It's pretty much set for helping racing minds.

kdelok 8y ago

Do you find it easier to fall asleep at other times than when you choose to go to bed? It might be that you have delayed sleep phase syndrome, or (less likely) a non-24 hour sleep phase issue. My partner is non-24 and generally manages a "normal" schedule. However, she sometimes has to roll her sleep, where she'll go to bed an average of 1.5 hours later each day, until she's back to going to bed around 10. When she is holding her sleep schedule steady she uses light goggles in the morning (literally goggles with bright reflected lights on them) and low-dose melatonin at night (can't remember the exact dose). She also watches her meal times relative to when she wants to go to sleep. I think these things would be useful for someone without the non-24 issues, but are good sleep hygiene things.