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How do you calculate the score for best second citizenship in detail? You should probably add a page for that. I.e. I get told that the best second nationality

How do you calculate the score for best second citizenship in detail? You should probably add a page for that. I.e. I get told that the best second nationality I could get is Serbian... Why though?

dmurray 8y ago
So did I! Although my country, Ireland, isn't explicitly listed. Looks like it takes "territory" (+40%) as a major input. Russia, China and Mongolia are big countries by land area which have a good understanding with Serbia, but nothing special with EU states. Guessing most Europeans will also hit Serbia. What's the actual most useful second passport to an Irish person? Probably American.
- ajuhasz 8y ago
  It’s under “Republic of Ireland”
  - dmurray 8y ago
    Thanks. I found it there - otherwise, I couldn't have given the details above - but that's the name of the country's soccer team. The country's name is Ireland and that's what appears on my passport and in any official documents produced in any country in the world.
    - yorwba 8y ago
      Apparently "Republic of Ireland" is officially the description but not the name of the state: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_the_Irish_state https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_the_Irish_state I guess it's similar to Germany being the "Federal Republic of Germany", or China being either the "People's Republic of China" (mainland) or the "Republic of China" (Taiwan).
- devnonymous 8y ago
  > Although my country, Ireland, isn't explicitly listed. It's listed as the Republic of Ireland, afaict.
- nikanj 8y ago
  The best passports are ones that lets you work, live and travel in a major economy without restrictions. As you already have the EU covered, US, China or Japan would be good ones. I think Japan does not allow for dual citizenship though.
  - dmurray 8y ago
    Agreed, those are good second passports to have. > I think Japan does not allow for dual citizenship though. Like Japan, China and the US also do not allow a second citizenship through naturalization. The US oath of allegiance requires you to "renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty". The loophole is that most countries don't allow you to renounce your citizenship just by informing some foreign flunky, so just saying it doesn't make it so. For naturalization, none of China, Japan or the US require documentary evidence that you are no longer a citizen of another state.
    - roel_v 8y ago
      "For naturalization, none of China, Japan or the US require documentary evidence that you are no longer a citizen of another state." That's because international law doesn't allow for states to make citizens stateless. E.g. in The Netherlands, a condition of getting citizenship is that you promise to renounce other citizenships within x time, and your Dutch one will be taken away if you don't. Not saying that any of the countries you listed have similar requirements, I don't know about that, I'm just adding some nationality law pedantry.
  - njoro 8y ago
    Australia is probably the best second passport for EU citizens, since that makes you eligible for E-3 visa to the US as well as the APEC card to China and Russia.
- et2o 8y ago
  I have to think American citizenship would be a pretty bad choice for a second passport, since America taxes its citizens on income earned abroad. You'd be approximately doubling your taxes if you are already taxed on income while abroad. (FWIW I'm an American)
  - roywiggins 8y ago
    America will let you deduct your foreign taxes, so if you live and pay taxes in a high tax country then you in theory won't actually owe anything to the US, but instead you'll owe your accountant for helping you file.
    - et2o 8y ago
      Interesting. I was not aware. Wouldn't you still owe the IRS money if the foreign taxes are deducted? As far as I understand tax deductions work like: Initial Income - Deduction = Adjusted Income. Then, you owe full taxes on the Adjusted Income. Let's say European Tax Rate is 40%, American Tax Rate is 20% (hypothetically!) Foreign income is 100k USD equivalent. You pay 40k taxes in Europe and are left with 60K. You deduct 40K from Initial Income, leaving you with adjusted income of 60K. You then pay 20% of that (12K) to the IRS, leaving you with 48K. So you’re in this hypothetical tax range taxed at less than US+European tax, but still have an effective tax rate much greater than not having US citizenship. Simple formula I think: Effective Tax = Income x EuropeanTaxRate + (Income-Income x EuropeanTaxRate) x AmericanTaxRate Factor out income etc. I’m on my phone :-)
      - AdamM12 8y ago
        You don't pay taxes on on your first like 118k in income [1]. Because this lowers your AGI even if you make more than that you still start at the bottom of the tax bracket. Rough example you make 125k thus 125k-118k - 7k in taxable income thus in 10% bracket. There are obviously other rules for non W-2 income and property taxes. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_earned_income_exclusion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_earned_income_exclusio...
      - 8y ago
askytb 8y ago
It's a total of differently weighted values for all the extra visa free countries, land, population and hdi/freedom of press of the target country. So we're aiming at a country that'd give you access to the most new countries/land/population while being relatively developed and not too totalitarian.
zakk 8y ago
With a Serbian passport you can travel visa-free for instance to Russia, Cuba, China. That’s due to agreements between non-aligned counties signed by Jugoslavia that Serbia inherited. You cannot still enter those countries without a visa with an EU passport, thus making a Serbian passport quite advantageous if you are a EU citizen.
- BerislavLopac 8y ago
  A nitpick: none of the countries you listed were in the non-aligned movement.
  - zakk 8y ago
    Thanks for pointing this out! I should have said that Jugoslavia had different friends that most other European countries, and Serbia inherited some of those agreements.
igravious 8y ago
Hmm… Interesting… Just throwing this out there, would any lady from Serbia be interested in marrying me?

How do you calculate the score for best second citizenship in detail? You should probably add a page for that. I.e. I get told that the best second nationality I could get is Serbian... Why though?

dmurray 8y ago

So did I! Although my country, Ireland, isn't explicitly listed. Looks like it takes "territory" (+40%) as a major input. Russia, China and Mongolia are big countries by land area which have a good understanding with Serbia, but nothing special with EU states. Guessing most Europeans will also hit Serbia. What's the actual most useful second passport to an Irish person? Probably American.

ajuhasz 8y ago
It’s under “Republic of Ireland”
- dmurray 8y ago
  Thanks. I found it there - otherwise, I couldn't have given the details above - but that's the name of the country's soccer team. The country's name is Ireland and that's what appears on my passport and in any official documents produced in any country in the world.
  - yorwba 8y ago
    Apparently "Republic of Ireland" is officially the description but not the name of the state: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_the_Irish_state https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_the_Irish_state I guess it's similar to Germany being the "Federal Republic of Germany", or China being either the "People's Republic of China" (mainland) or the "Republic of China" (Taiwan).
devnonymous 8y ago
> Although my country, Ireland, isn't explicitly listed. It's listed as the Republic of Ireland, afaict.
nikanj 8y ago
The best passports are ones that lets you work, live and travel in a major economy without restrictions. As you already have the EU covered, US, China or Japan would be good ones. I think Japan does not allow for dual citizenship though.
- dmurray 8y ago
  Agreed, those are good second passports to have. > I think Japan does not allow for dual citizenship though. Like Japan, China and the US also do not allow a second citizenship through naturalization. The US oath of allegiance requires you to "renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty". The loophole is that most countries don't allow you to renounce your citizenship just by informing some foreign flunky, so just saying it doesn't make it so. For naturalization, none of China, Japan or the US require documentary evidence that you are no longer a citizen of another state.
  - roel_v 8y ago
    "For naturalization, none of China, Japan or the US require documentary evidence that you are no longer a citizen of another state." That's because international law doesn't allow for states to make citizens stateless. E.g. in The Netherlands, a condition of getting citizenship is that you promise to renounce other citizenships within x time, and your Dutch one will be taken away if you don't. Not saying that any of the countries you listed have similar requirements, I don't know about that, I'm just adding some nationality law pedantry.
- njoro 8y ago
  Australia is probably the best second passport for EU citizens, since that makes you eligible for E-3 visa to the US as well as the APEC card to China and Russia.
et2o 8y ago
I have to think American citizenship would be a pretty bad choice for a second passport, since America taxes its citizens on income earned abroad. You'd be approximately doubling your taxes if you are already taxed on income while abroad. (FWIW I'm an American)
- roywiggins 8y ago
  America will let you deduct your foreign taxes, so if you live and pay taxes in a high tax country then you in theory won't actually owe anything to the US, but instead you'll owe your accountant for helping you file.
  - et2o 8y ago
    Interesting. I was not aware. Wouldn't you still owe the IRS money if the foreign taxes are deducted? As far as I understand tax deductions work like: Initial Income - Deduction = Adjusted Income. Then, you owe full taxes on the Adjusted Income. Let's say European Tax Rate is 40%, American Tax Rate is 20% (hypothetically!) Foreign income is 100k USD equivalent. You pay 40k taxes in Europe and are left with 60K. You deduct 40K from Initial Income, leaving you with adjusted income of 60K. You then pay 20% of that (12K) to the IRS, leaving you with 48K. So you’re in this hypothetical tax range taxed at less than US+European tax, but still have an effective tax rate much greater than not having US citizenship. Simple formula I think: Effective Tax = Income x EuropeanTaxRate + (Income-Income x EuropeanTaxRate) x AmericanTaxRate Factor out income etc. I’m on my phone :-)
    - AdamM12 8y ago
      You don't pay taxes on on your first like 118k in income [1]. Because this lowers your AGI even if you make more than that you still start at the bottom of the tax bracket. Rough example you make 125k thus 125k-118k - 7k in taxable income thus in 10% bracket. There are obviously other rules for non W-2 income and property taxes. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_earned_income_exclusion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_earned_income_exclusio...
    - 8y ago

askytb 8y ago

It's a total of differently weighted values for all the extra visa free countries, land, population and hdi/freedom of press of the target country. So we're aiming at a country that'd give you access to the most new countries/land/population while being relatively developed and not too totalitarian.

zakk 8y ago

With a Serbian passport you can travel visa-free for instance to Russia, Cuba, China. That’s due to agreements between non-aligned counties signed by Jugoslavia that Serbia inherited. You cannot still enter those countries without a visa with an EU passport, thus making a Serbian passport quite advantageous if you are a EU citizen.

BerislavLopac 8y ago
A nitpick: none of the countries you listed were in the non-aligned movement.
- zakk 8y ago
  Thanks for pointing this out! I should have said that Jugoslavia had different friends that most other European countries, and Serbia inherited some of those agreements.

igravious 8y ago

Hmm… Interesting… Just throwing this out there, would any lady from Serbia be interested in marrying me?