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> All those labels are just shackles on a heavy chain of controlling discourse. Can you elaborate on what you mean by controlling discourse?

jacquesm 8y ago
That almost nothing changes except for the words people use because that's all that they can influence. Now, real change is precursed by a change in attitude and a change in attitude can be in turn precursed by a change in terminology. But a change in terminology does not always lead to a change in attitude and a change in attitude does not always lead to real change. It's confusing cause and effect.
- hanselot 8y ago
  Don't force views on deaf ears. The gradual shifting of awareness is happening regardless and irrespective of the attempts by liberals to further the cause (which is essentially politically driven at this stage). Allowing yourself to be vulnerable with who you are (to those close to you) is how you spread awareness and actually change people into activists for your cause (without resorting to dogma and rhetoric).
  - jacquesm 8y ago
    100% agreed, in fact I think that the 'change the language' approach is a net negative because it contains an element of force and force tends to breed resentment. Some people just weren't born to be part of progress and for every mind changed I suspect there are a large multitude that dig in even further. The time is ripe, enough people are reasonable to get an actual change happening on this front in the lifetimes of almost everybody that it really matters to. Force will get you nowhere at all. Taking Rosa Parks as a nice example: she wasn't complaining about the language used to determine her place in the bus, she took what was rightfully hers and stood by it.
- rainbowmverse 8y ago
  Labels for gender and sexuality are so much more than simple political identifiers. People who actually use them for themselves experience them as guideposts to finding out what's going on inside by seeking out other people's experiences. To us, the labels are no different from "nerd" or "musician." I would still find them useful even without a vast social and political movement hell-bent on making my world as sad and empty as their own. Identity labels are fundamentally about making space to explore. "Musician" leads to all kinds of places, like grungehead, or rondo fanatic, or furry rave DJ. Why people get so up in arms about identity labels when it comes to gender and sexuality is beyond me, and I've already written too much here to start speculating.
  - arketyp 8y ago
    The musician analogy is good. You will find the same debate there. Listen to your genuis.

jacquesm 8y ago

That almost nothing changes except for the words people use because that's all that they can influence. Now, real change is precursed by a change in attitude and a change in attitude can be in turn precursed by a change in terminology. But a change in terminology does not always lead to a change in attitude and a change in attitude does not always lead to real change. It's confusing cause and effect.

hanselot 8y ago
Don't force views on deaf ears. The gradual shifting of awareness is happening regardless and irrespective of the attempts by liberals to further the cause (which is essentially politically driven at this stage). Allowing yourself to be vulnerable with who you are (to those close to you) is how you spread awareness and actually change people into activists for your cause (without resorting to dogma and rhetoric).
- jacquesm 8y ago
  100% agreed, in fact I think that the 'change the language' approach is a net negative because it contains an element of force and force tends to breed resentment. Some people just weren't born to be part of progress and for every mind changed I suspect there are a large multitude that dig in even further. The time is ripe, enough people are reasonable to get an actual change happening on this front in the lifetimes of almost everybody that it really matters to. Force will get you nowhere at all. Taking Rosa Parks as a nice example: she wasn't complaining about the language used to determine her place in the bus, she took what was rightfully hers and stood by it.
rainbowmverse 8y ago
Labels for gender and sexuality are so much more than simple political identifiers. People who actually use them for themselves experience them as guideposts to finding out what's going on inside by seeking out other people's experiences. To us, the labels are no different from "nerd" or "musician." I would still find them useful even without a vast social and political movement hell-bent on making my world as sad and empty as their own. Identity labels are fundamentally about making space to explore. "Musician" leads to all kinds of places, like grungehead, or rondo fanatic, or furry rave DJ. Why people get so up in arms about identity labels when it comes to gender and sexuality is beyond me, and I've already written too much here to start speculating.
- arketyp 8y ago
  The musician analogy is good. You will find the same debate there. Listen to your genuis.