7 ms·

The only joke here is somehow this author thinks the success of your project is dependent on the language you pick

macintux 8y ago
Funny how many people believe that language choice influences success. I guess they're all wrong? Sure, there are an uncountable number of other factors, but picking the wrong platform/language can be fatal.
- ythn 8y ago
  Anytime I see someone bashing Java/PHP/JavaScript on /r/programmerhumor (reddit) I challenge them to a coding contest. I use the language they just bashed, they use their ideal language. No takers yet. I think, more often than not, language choice is like golf club choice. Different pros have their preferences, but a pro can play a good game with any set of clubs. A novice will blame the clubs for a poor game.
  - paulie_a 8y ago
    To be fair I don't understand why anyone would bother. I am commenting on a forum, I don't expect to be given homework.
  - swebs 8y ago
    And you can perform carpentry using a big rock instead of a hammer. That doesn't negate any downsides of choosing the rock.
    - ythn 8y ago
      I would say it's more like people are pooh-poohing certain brands of hammers as being inferior to TrendTech Hammers (R) which are "obviously" superior.
  - AnimalMuppet 8y ago
    The winner will be the one who gets to pick the task for the programming challenge.
- jaxtellerSoA 8y ago
  I think it does and it doesn't. It really depends on what your end goal is. Writing a web application? Not sure it really matters much if you use Python/Django, Ruby/Rails, Java/Spring. Just use what you (or the developers) are most comfortable with. Trying to make a game engine for AAA games? Yeah your not going to get away with Ruby or Python.
  - AnimalMuppet 8y ago
    > Writing a web application? Not sure it really matters much if you use Python/Django, Ruby/Rails, Java/Spring. Just use what you (or the developers) are most comfortable with. It might matter if you used COBOL, though. Or even C++.
- DannyB2 8y ago
  Definitely pick the right tool for the right job. Using C (maybe C++ ?) may be great for micro controllers, a BIOS, a stage 1 bloat loader, OS kernel and device drivers. If you're writing application software, and probably even server software, you should be using something higher level and a bit more abstracted away from the hardware. Not necessarily by much. But definitely more than C / C++.
- TimJYoung 8y ago
  Yes, but that goes both ways: choosing a popular language can be just as fatal as choosing an unpopular language. If you're a "body shop", then choosing an unpopular language could be fatal, whereas if you're building a specific software product that needs to do certain things on certain platforms, then choosing the language becomes less of a popularity contest and more about how it can help you finish the product quickly with the highest level of quality and performance.
waivek 8y ago
Exactly! If I want to write my AAA game engine in JavaScript and Haskell it still has the same chance of success as an engine in C++
amenod 8y ago
Joke aside, it does contribute a lot. On one hand ability to get programmers (for acceptable price) depends on it, and on the other some languages are simply not suited for some environments. Would you believe I once saw backend service written in PHP4? And not a small one either. It was just the only language the 2 original authors knew... Apparently they had a bit of memory problems because substr (or similar) leaked a few bytes, which over a course of few months amounted to quite a lot of memory.
bunderbunder 8y ago
"Dependent" is a strong word, but tool/job fit is still important. I've personally never grown comfortable enough with C++ to get to a point where, were I to be the one calling the shots, it would ever be my first choice. But I also recognize that it's dominant in certain spaces for a reason. At the same time, I have a lot of sympathy for people who prefer C over C++. There's a lot of cognitive overhead involved in understanding the semantics of an object-oriented language, especially a big complex one like C++ or Java. And complex languages do have a tendency to beget complex implementations, even when you're working on a project that could be small and simple.
- p0nce 8y ago
  > it's dominant in certain spaces for a reason. That reason usually is: "no other compiler were available" or "no other choices at the times".
- jasonmaydie 8y ago
  I've been in the business for 15 years, I have never seen a successful product fail because it was written in language x or y. It fails for a lot of other non programming language reasons though
  - bunderbunder 8y ago
    I have never seen a successful product that failed for any reason, ever. ;)
    - jasonmaydie 8y ago
      wordperfect
sametmax 8y ago
"Almost perfect"[1] disagrees with you. [1] http://www.wordplace.com/ap/index.shtml http://www.wordplace.com/ap/index.shtml
- jasonmaydie 8y ago
  which part? I skimmed through it and it mostly seemed to be group interplay, direction and competition. This is what kills products, not language of choice.
  - sametmax 8y ago
    The part where they stick to assembly while the competition doesn't.
dracodoc 8y ago
It's definitely an important factor, at least indicts lots of other factors. - is the language suitable for the domain? - is library/community support mature? - are there enough developers? - who in the company will support it? It's obvious from HN topics that we are obsessed in language topics. - it also reflect some part of design philosophy, and it could be good or bad for your project depend on the case.
0xfeba 8y ago
Where's the triple-A games written in brainfuck then?

Funny how many people believe that language choice influences success. I guess they're all wrong? Sure, there are an uncountable number of other factors, but picking the wrong platform/language can be fatal.

ythn 8y ago
Anytime I see someone bashing Java/PHP/JavaScript on /r/programmerhumor (reddit) I challenge them to a coding contest. I use the language they just bashed, they use their ideal language. No takers yet. I think, more often than not, language choice is like golf club choice. Different pros have their preferences, but a pro can play a good game with any set of clubs. A novice will blame the clubs for a poor game.
- paulie_a 8y ago
  To be fair I don't understand why anyone would bother. I am commenting on a forum, I don't expect to be given homework.
- swebs 8y ago
  And you can perform carpentry using a big rock instead of a hammer. That doesn't negate any downsides of choosing the rock.
  - ythn 8y ago
    I would say it's more like people are pooh-poohing certain brands of hammers as being inferior to TrendTech Hammers (R) which are "obviously" superior.
- AnimalMuppet 8y ago
  The winner will be the one who gets to pick the task for the programming challenge.
jaxtellerSoA 8y ago
I think it does and it doesn't. It really depends on what your end goal is. Writing a web application? Not sure it really matters much if you use Python/Django, Ruby/Rails, Java/Spring. Just use what you (or the developers) are most comfortable with. Trying to make a game engine for AAA games? Yeah your not going to get away with Ruby or Python.
- AnimalMuppet 8y ago
  > Writing a web application? Not sure it really matters much if you use Python/Django, Ruby/Rails, Java/Spring. Just use what you (or the developers) are most comfortable with. It might matter if you used COBOL, though. Or even C++.
DannyB2 8y ago
Definitely pick the right tool for the right job. Using C (maybe C++ ?) may be great for micro controllers, a BIOS, a stage 1 bloat loader, OS kernel and device drivers. If you're writing application software, and probably even server software, you should be using something higher level and a bit more abstracted away from the hardware. Not necessarily by much. But definitely more than C / C++.
TimJYoung 8y ago
Yes, but that goes both ways: choosing a popular language can be just as fatal as choosing an unpopular language. If you're a "body shop", then choosing an unpopular language could be fatal, whereas if you're building a specific software product that needs to do certain things on certain platforms, then choosing the language becomes less of a popularity contest and more about how it can help you finish the product quickly with the highest level of quality and performance.

waivek 8y ago

Exactly! If I want to write my AAA game engine in JavaScript and Haskell it still has the same chance of success as an engine in C++

amenod 8y ago

Joke aside, it does contribute a lot. On one hand ability to get programmers (for acceptable price) depends on it, and on the other some languages are simply not suited for some environments. Would you believe I once saw backend service written in PHP4? And not a small one either. It was just the only language the 2 original authors knew... Apparently they had a bit of memory problems because substr (or similar) leaked a few bytes, which over a course of few months amounted to quite a lot of memory.

bunderbunder 8y ago

"Dependent" is a strong word, but tool/job fit is still important. I've personally never grown comfortable enough with C++ to get to a point where, were I to be the one calling the shots, it would ever be my first choice. But I also recognize that it's dominant in certain spaces for a reason. At the same time, I have a lot of sympathy for people who prefer C over C++. There's a lot of cognitive overhead involved in understanding the semantics of an object-oriented language, especially a big complex one like C++ or Java. And complex languages do have a tendency to beget complex implementations, even when you're working on a project that could be small and simple.

p0nce 8y ago
> it's dominant in certain spaces for a reason. That reason usually is: "no other compiler were available" or "no other choices at the times".
jasonmaydie 8y ago
I've been in the business for 15 years, I have never seen a successful product fail because it was written in language x or y. It fails for a lot of other non programming language reasons though
- bunderbunder 8y ago
  I have never seen a successful product that failed for any reason, ever. ;)
  - jasonmaydie 8y ago
    wordperfect

sametmax 8y ago

"Almost perfect"[1] disagrees with you. [1] http://www.wordplace.com/ap/index.shtml http://www.wordplace.com/ap/index.shtml

jasonmaydie 8y ago
which part? I skimmed through it and it mostly seemed to be group interplay, direction and competition. This is what kills products, not language of choice.
- sametmax 8y ago
  The part where they stick to assembly while the competition doesn't.

dracodoc 8y ago

It's definitely an important factor, at least indicts lots of other factors. - is the language suitable for the domain? - is library/community support mature? - are there enough developers? - who in the company will support it? It's obvious from HN topics that we are obsessed in language topics. - it also reflect some part of design philosophy, and it could be good or bad for your project depend on the case.

0xfeba 8y ago

Where's the triple-A games written in brainfuck then?