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US, South Korea, Taiwan, Japan, and Europe really needs to form a coalition that would put pressure on Chinese government-sponsored companies blatant hacking at

US, South Korea, Taiwan, Japan, and Europe really needs to form a coalition that would put pressure on Chinese government-sponsored companies blatant hacking attacks/stealing technologies, either by taking steps to reduce Chinese government investments in crucial technologies, punish Chinese firms like Huawei via sanctions, or put massive tariffs on China like US is doing. China is a very bad actor in the world. Some readings: How Chinese hacking felled telecommunication giant Nortel https://www.afr.com/technology/web/security/how-chinese-hacking-felled-telecommunication-giant-nortel-20140526-iux6a https://www.afr.com/technology/web/security/how-chinese-hack.... China-based hackers burrow inside satellite, defense, and telecoms firms https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2018/06/china-based-hackers-burrow-inside-satellite-defense-and-telecoms-firms/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2018/06/china...

amsilprotag 8y ago
If podcasts are more your speed, I'd recommend Bloomberg's Odd Lots with Dan Wang, which talks about China's 2025 plan. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-05-21/this-is-china-s-plan-to-be-a-technology-powerhouse-by-the-year-2025 https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-05-21/this-is-c...
Jerry2 8y ago
We should start banning importation of products containing stolen technologies. And companies that use stolen technologies and their CEOs should be banned from Western markets.
- foobarbazetc 8y ago
  Then Apple products are banned in China tomorrow and Apple loses half its value. Let’s see how that goes. ;)
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - freeloop10 8y ago
    To a compromise? How do you think it will go if we do nothing?
    - freeone3000 8y ago
      The multinational conglomerates who own all manufacturing and research become Chinese in name only instead of American in name only (or is it Irish this week?)
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - tooltalk 8y ago
    Well, Apple also employs millions of Chinese works indirectly through their suppliers. I think the last thing the Chinese gov't wants is a large number of unemployed young males.
  - tlear 8y ago
    Well Apple is fucked, US enters depression. China economy collapses utterly. Xi does not live too long before he either enacts Stalin/Mao level purges or gets shot himself.
- tooltalk 8y ago
  That's how the current patent/trade system works. If it turns out there are products made without proper IP licensing, the USITC can ban importation of infringing goods.
foobarbazetc 8y ago
Nobody actually cares about any of this. And no country is going to form any sort of coalition with the US right now. It’s just shifting power centers and really all comes down to corporate profits.
- whatyoucantsay 8y ago
  > Nobody actually cares about any of this... It’s just shifting power centers and really all comes down to corporate profits. Europe has made this mistake before. Appeasing a totalitarian, expansionist dictator works well, abruptly to the point at which it doesn't. To be clear, this is an attack on the sovereignty of a fully democratic nation with a population the size of Australia's. Some things are more precious than "corporate profits".
  - stcredzero 8y ago
    I wonder if we could apply this kind of reasoning to the shift of economic and cultural power in the US from the Northeast to the West and South? While not engaging in military expansion and classic totalitarianism, much of the intelligentsia of the West seems to be down with cultural, media, and corporate authoritarian tactics.
stcredzero 8y ago
The US used to run rampant over other's intellectual property in the 1800's. As far as I know, that didn't involve much industrial espionage. China is exploiting its sovereignty to enable industrial espionage over computer networks without consequences. The strategic solution is to raise the cost of this activity. Maybe one of the best things Microsoft could do, would be to implement a suite of future products providing 1) iron clad application sandboxing 2) all executable content requiring digital signature. Follow this up with aggressive use of honeypots and poison pills.
- worldsurfblue 8y ago
  > The US used to run rampant over other's intellectual property in the 1800's That's a common myth. One person, samuel slater, memorized the designs of textile factory machinery as an apprentice to a pioneer in the British industry before migrating to the United States at the age of 21. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Slater https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Slater US didn't steal anything using Samuel Slater. I haven't heard of any other examples of US stealing intellectual properties in 1800. Plus, that's over 200 years ago. Would you like to bring up the something more recent?
  - stcredzero 8y ago
    I haven't heard of any other examples of US stealing intellectual properties in 1800. In the 1800's, not in 1800. https://creativelawcenter.com/dickens-american-copyright/ https://creativelawcenter.com/dickens-american-copyright/ https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2013-02-01/piracy-and-fraud-propelled-the-u-s-industrial-revolution https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2013-02-01/piracy-an... A somewhat nuanced discussion of the above: https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130228/01324622146/yes-us-industrial-revolution-was-built-piracy-fraud.shtml https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130228/01324622146/yes-u...
  - woolvalley 8y ago
    For a more localized version, the entire existence of Hollywood happened because the industry wanted to avoid Edison's patent enforcement, and it was hard to enforce lawsuits on the other side of the country. For me it's not really the IP theft, and more the lack of an equal playing field for foreign companies in China. If foreign companies can't get the same effective rights as local ones do, then those other countries should give the same restrictions to chinese companies in their locales.
njoro 8y ago
There is no stopping China in the information age. Someone said "information wants to be free". That was 35 years ago. China will catch up to the west whether it is by stealing, acquiring or of their own accord. As long as the west think it is a better idea to focus on real estate, finance and service jobs we won't even keep up. South Korea, Taiwan and Japan almost completely missed the Internet. And frankly so did most of Europe and the US. European manufacturers have been moving their factories, if not to China, to Eastern Europe for years. While Midea, a large Chinese appliance manufacturer, just bought Kuka last year. They are now apparently adapting all their products to be made by robots. It is just completely different trajectories.
- worldsurfblue 8y ago
  > There is no stopping China in the information age. Says who? > Someone said "information wants to be free". That was 35 years ago. China's great firewall will disagree with that statement > China will catch up to the west whether it is by stealing, acquiring or of their own accord Not if you safeguard your secrets, plus their own crashing economy will stop the catching up part
  - onetimemanytime 8y ago
    >>Not if you safeguard your secrets, plus their own crashing economy will stop the catching up part Long term you can't. China will offer $10 million, $100 million or even a Billion to the person that knows /has access to everything. Add blackmail to really entice him /her. China really needs this tech, as per the article they're spending more on importing chips than oil. Add potential actions, ala ZTE, and it becomes a matter of their NAT SEC. Nothing is spared...
  - njoro 8y ago
    > Says who? I just did. > China's great firewall will disagree with that statement Not really. The firewall isn't really stopping anyone. The reason Chinese people are unconvinced about the west isn't because they don't know about it. It isn't North Korea. It is because China is providing their own narrative. They have their own culture, services, infrastructure and increasingly opportunities. Sure, part of that dampening other narratives. But they are ultimately succeeding because they are making progress themselves. > Not if you safeguard your secrets How are you going to safeguard your secrets when, not only is it increasingly hard, but the utility of information is often also only as great as the amount of people knowing about it? A significant part of the industry (in the west) is foreigners to begin with. > plus their own crashing economy will stop the catching up part People have been saying that for years. Maybe it will happen. But there is also nothing saying half of the western technology industry won't go down with a recession and subsequent housing market crash in San Francisco, Stockholm, London etc.
NicoJuicy 8y ago
I can see any of them form a coalition as long as it doesn't involve the US ( because of Trump), could be better in 2 years though, when trust comes back. PS. For the ones downvoting, at least say why and where you live. PS2. Belgium (EU) and work for a Canadian company
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
deleted 8y ago
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est 8y ago
There are tons of other country that had the chance to "steal" technology, it's only China that really puts hard work and effort to manufacture it to a product, and drop into market.
cm2012 8y ago
That's a big part of what the TPP was.
powerapple 8y ago
I think China has proven that for developing world to really develop, they should employ the same tactic. The real monopoly of developed world is in technology, and there is no way any poor country can catch up. Poor countries will always just be some 'market' unless they do something to save themselves. And when robot technology really takes off, poor country will have 'zero' chance of getting out of their situation again, they are going to be in deep trouble.

amsilprotag 8y ago

If podcasts are more your speed, I'd recommend Bloomberg's Odd Lots with Dan Wang, which talks about China's 2025 plan. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-05-21/this-is-china-s-plan-to-be-a-technology-powerhouse-by-the-year-2025 https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-05-21/this-is-c...

Jerry2 8y ago

We should start banning importation of products containing stolen technologies. And companies that use stolen technologies and their CEOs should be banned from Western markets.

foobarbazetc 8y ago
Then Apple products are banned in China tomorrow and Apple loses half its value. Let’s see how that goes. ;)
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- freeloop10 8y ago
  To a compromise? How do you think it will go if we do nothing?
  - freeone3000 8y ago
    The multinational conglomerates who own all manufacturing and research become Chinese in name only instead of American in name only (or is it Irish this week?)
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- tooltalk 8y ago
  Well, Apple also employs millions of Chinese works indirectly through their suppliers. I think the last thing the Chinese gov't wants is a large number of unemployed young males.
- tlear 8y ago
  Well Apple is fucked, US enters depression. China economy collapses utterly. Xi does not live too long before he either enacts Stalin/Mao level purges or gets shot himself.
tooltalk 8y ago
That's how the current patent/trade system works. If it turns out there are products made without proper IP licensing, the USITC can ban importation of infringing goods.

foobarbazetc 8y ago

Nobody actually cares about any of this. And no country is going to form any sort of coalition with the US right now. It’s just shifting power centers and really all comes down to corporate profits.

whatyoucantsay 8y ago
> Nobody actually cares about any of this... It’s just shifting power centers and really all comes down to corporate profits. Europe has made this mistake before. Appeasing a totalitarian, expansionist dictator works well, abruptly to the point at which it doesn't. To be clear, this is an attack on the sovereignty of a fully democratic nation with a population the size of Australia's. Some things are more precious than "corporate profits".
- stcredzero 8y ago
  I wonder if we could apply this kind of reasoning to the shift of economic and cultural power in the US from the Northeast to the West and South? While not engaging in military expansion and classic totalitarianism, much of the intelligentsia of the West seems to be down with cultural, media, and corporate authoritarian tactics.

stcredzero 8y ago

The US used to run rampant over other's intellectual property in the 1800's. As far as I know, that didn't involve much industrial espionage. China is exploiting its sovereignty to enable industrial espionage over computer networks without consequences. The strategic solution is to raise the cost of this activity. Maybe one of the best things Microsoft could do, would be to implement a suite of future products providing 1) iron clad application sandboxing 2) all executable content requiring digital signature. Follow this up with aggressive use of honeypots and poison pills.

worldsurfblue 8y ago
> The US used to run rampant over other's intellectual property in the 1800's That's a common myth. One person, samuel slater, memorized the designs of textile factory machinery as an apprentice to a pioneer in the British industry before migrating to the United States at the age of 21. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Slater https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Slater US didn't steal anything using Samuel Slater. I haven't heard of any other examples of US stealing intellectual properties in 1800. Plus, that's over 200 years ago. Would you like to bring up the something more recent?
- stcredzero 8y ago
  I haven't heard of any other examples of US stealing intellectual properties in 1800. In the 1800's, not in 1800. https://creativelawcenter.com/dickens-american-copyright/ https://creativelawcenter.com/dickens-american-copyright/ https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2013-02-01/piracy-and-fraud-propelled-the-u-s-industrial-revolution https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2013-02-01/piracy-an... A somewhat nuanced discussion of the above: https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130228/01324622146/yes-us-industrial-revolution-was-built-piracy-fraud.shtml https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130228/01324622146/yes-u...
- woolvalley 8y ago
  For a more localized version, the entire existence of Hollywood happened because the industry wanted to avoid Edison's patent enforcement, and it was hard to enforce lawsuits on the other side of the country. For me it's not really the IP theft, and more the lack of an equal playing field for foreign companies in China. If foreign companies can't get the same effective rights as local ones do, then those other countries should give the same restrictions to chinese companies in their locales.

njoro 8y ago

There is no stopping China in the information age. Someone said "information wants to be free". That was 35 years ago. China will catch up to the west whether it is by stealing, acquiring or of their own accord. As long as the west think it is a better idea to focus on real estate, finance and service jobs we won't even keep up. South Korea, Taiwan and Japan almost completely missed the Internet. And frankly so did most of Europe and the US. European manufacturers have been moving their factories, if not to China, to Eastern Europe for years. While Midea, a large Chinese appliance manufacturer, just bought Kuka last year. They are now apparently adapting all their products to be made by robots. It is just completely different trajectories.

worldsurfblue 8y ago
> There is no stopping China in the information age. Says who? > Someone said "information wants to be free". That was 35 years ago. China's great firewall will disagree with that statement > China will catch up to the west whether it is by stealing, acquiring or of their own accord Not if you safeguard your secrets, plus their own crashing economy will stop the catching up part
- onetimemanytime 8y ago
  >>Not if you safeguard your secrets, plus their own crashing economy will stop the catching up part Long term you can't. China will offer $10 million, $100 million or even a Billion to the person that knows /has access to everything. Add blackmail to really entice him /her. China really needs this tech, as per the article they're spending more on importing chips than oil. Add potential actions, ala ZTE, and it becomes a matter of their NAT SEC. Nothing is spared...
- njoro 8y ago
  > Says who? I just did. > China's great firewall will disagree with that statement Not really. The firewall isn't really stopping anyone. The reason Chinese people are unconvinced about the west isn't because they don't know about it. It isn't North Korea. It is because China is providing their own narrative. They have their own culture, services, infrastructure and increasingly opportunities. Sure, part of that dampening other narratives. But they are ultimately succeeding because they are making progress themselves. > Not if you safeguard your secrets How are you going to safeguard your secrets when, not only is it increasingly hard, but the utility of information is often also only as great as the amount of people knowing about it? A significant part of the industry (in the west) is foreigners to begin with. > plus their own crashing economy will stop the catching up part People have been saying that for years. Maybe it will happen. But there is also nothing saying half of the western technology industry won't go down with a recession and subsequent housing market crash in San Francisco, Stockholm, London etc.

NicoJuicy 8y ago

I can see any of them form a coalition as long as it doesn't involve the US ( because of Trump), could be better in 2 years though, when trust comes back. PS. For the ones downvoting, at least say why and where you live. PS2. Belgium (EU) and work for a Canadian company

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

est 8y ago

There are tons of other country that had the chance to "steal" technology, it's only China that really puts hard work and effort to manufacture it to a product, and drop into market.

cm2012 8y ago

That's a big part of what the TPP was.

powerapple 8y ago

I think China has proven that for developing world to really develop, they should employ the same tactic. The real monopoly of developed world is in technology, and there is no way any poor country can catch up. Poor countries will always just be some 'market' unless they do something to save themselves. And when robot technology really takes off, poor country will have 'zero' chance of getting out of their situation again, they are going to be in deep trouble.