8 ms·

The tension between "all non-Anglo culture is unconditionally progressive" versus "we have to pretend linguistic gender is political" is amusing. The meme that

The tension between "all non-Anglo culture is unconditionally progressive" versus "we have to pretend linguistic gender is political" is amusing. The meme that the standard English "he", used in the context of referring to a gender unspecified person, is oppressive can't be older than the 60's; it's probably possible to document its exact source and rate of spread. The meme doesn't even make sense for its own purposes because it disallows an English speaker to refer to a person in a gender unspecified way.

leetcrew 8y ago
> it disallows an English speaker to refer to a person in a gender unspecified way it's really not that hard to use singular "they". we already do it naturally in instances like "someone left their coat here. i hope they don't need it today." it only gets confusing when you try to talk about a gender unspecified member of a group and the group at the same time. you can certainly debate whether you should have to adjust the way you speak, but it's not like what people are requesting with pronouns is actually hard.
- astura 8y ago
  Singular "they" sometimes gets a bad rap (less so in the last couple years) but it's been part of the English language since the time thorn (Þ) was an English letter. It's appeared in well known written works by respected authors, such as this usage by Shakespeare: "There's not a man I meet but doth salute me as if I were their well-acquainted friend" - A Comedy of Errors, Act IV, Scene 3 As you point out, even people who criticize it use it, because it's natural in most situations. There would be very few people who would naturally say "each of the children called his parents" over "each of the children called their parents." https://www.npr.org/2016/01/13/462906419/everyone-uses-singular-they-whether-they-realize-it-or-not https://www.npr.org/2016/01/13/462906419/everyone-uses-singu... >A lot of people tell you it sets their teeth on edge, but my guess is that they're not listening to themselves very attentively. Everyone uses singular "they," whether they realize it or not. In an engaging recent book called Between You & Me, the New Yorker's self-designated comma queen Mary Norris says that that use of "they" is "just wrong." But flip back a few pages and you find her writing "Nobody wanted to think they were not essential." If that sentence got by a New Yorker copy editor in her own book on grammar, what hope is there for anybody else? If you insist on coming down on singular "they," it's best to be a bit ironic about it, since you're almost certainly going to be making a hypocrite of yourself before the day is out.
  - spraak 8y ago
    Thanks for sharing this! I really felt like it must be older and more common than critics claim.
    - astura 8y ago
      The oldest use of singular they I can find is a Middle English bible translation from 1382 (Wycliffe's Bible) "Eche on in þer craft ys wijs" (Each one in their craft is wise)

leetcrew 8y ago

> it disallows an English speaker to refer to a person in a gender unspecified way it's really not that hard to use singular "they". we already do it naturally in instances like "someone left their coat here. i hope they don't need it today." it only gets confusing when you try to talk about a gender unspecified member of a group and the group at the same time. you can certainly debate whether you should have to adjust the way you speak, but it's not like what people are requesting with pronouns is actually hard.

astura 8y ago
Singular "they" sometimes gets a bad rap (less so in the last couple years) but it's been part of the English language since the time thorn (Þ) was an English letter. It's appeared in well known written works by respected authors, such as this usage by Shakespeare: "There's not a man I meet but doth salute me as if I were their well-acquainted friend" - A Comedy of Errors, Act IV, Scene 3 As you point out, even people who criticize it use it, because it's natural in most situations. There would be very few people who would naturally say "each of the children called his parents" over "each of the children called their parents." https://www.npr.org/2016/01/13/462906419/everyone-uses-singular-they-whether-they-realize-it-or-not https://www.npr.org/2016/01/13/462906419/everyone-uses-singu... >A lot of people tell you it sets their teeth on edge, but my guess is that they're not listening to themselves very attentively. Everyone uses singular "they," whether they realize it or not. In an engaging recent book called Between You & Me, the New Yorker's self-designated comma queen Mary Norris says that that use of "they" is "just wrong." But flip back a few pages and you find her writing "Nobody wanted to think they were not essential." If that sentence got by a New Yorker copy editor in her own book on grammar, what hope is there for anybody else? If you insist on coming down on singular "they," it's best to be a bit ironic about it, since you're almost certainly going to be making a hypocrite of yourself before the day is out.
- spraak 8y ago
  Thanks for sharing this! I really felt like it must be older and more common than critics claim.
  - astura 8y ago
    The oldest use of singular they I can find is a Middle English bible translation from 1382 (Wycliffe's Bible) "Eche on in þer craft ys wijs" (Each one in their craft is wise)