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If a startup is running on tight runway then female staff getting pregnant could be massively detrimental. In many civilized parts of the world, a female emplo

by to_bpr 8y ago

If a startup is running on tight runway then female staff getting pregnant could be massively detrimental. In many civilized parts of the world, a female employee getting pregnant will mean disruption during the pregnancy to accommodate doctor's visits and health issues, and then months of paid leave PLUS having to pay to backfill their position with a temp, plus the costs of recruiting and ramping up said temp. That's a huge hit for an early stage startup to take.

fjones11 8y ago
Not sure I could disagree more with this. (Not to mention, this is exactly the kind of attitude that makes it hard for women to work in tech.) There are regular doctor's visits during pregnancy, yes, but that's a few hours a month. Surely even the smallest startups can absorb that kind of "disruption". And typically, since parents know well in advance when and how much leave they'll need to take, the team can plan around the leave and how to take over that work in someone's absence. In most cases, you'll have 5-6 months to prepare. I work for a small startup - fewer than 20 employees - and two of our team members are married. They had a baby and were both out for month (the mom took more time after that), and everything continued to function just fine because we'd planned for it. And if we needed them, they were just an email or text away. Finally, parents can be some of the most efficient workers on a team, and are great candidates for startups. They are experienced in time management and balancing multiple tasks and stakeholders.
amyjess 8y ago
Honestly, this just fuels my dislike of startups. Startup culture is toxic by nature. My advice is this: companies need to suck it up. We live in a society with rules and laws for a reason. If your business can't exist under those rules and laws, then it doesn't belong in society. Ventures that are detrimental to society simply shouldn't be allowed.
- pancakes123 8y ago
  Please don't think OP's comment is representative of other startups. It isn't.
- workinthehead 8y ago
  There is a giant, giant disconnect between "following laws" and "detrimental to society to the point where it needs to be forcibly prevented" and it doesn't speak well to your ability to reason that you've conflated the two.
  - sctb 8y ago
    Personal attacks have no business on Hacker News. If you're going to comment, you need to leave those out. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
sulam 8y ago
I’d like you to try doing a mental exercise and see if you feel okay with what you’ve written here. s/pregnant/cancer/ and then ask yourself if you would feel comfortable inquiring about medical history during the hiring process.
- workinthehead 8y ago
  Most people would if it was socially permissible. We're talking about running a business, not a safe space.
  - to_bpr 8y ago
    >We're talking about running a business, not a safe space. Most seem to have become disconnected with this reality in the era of our massively inflated economy (and tech industry). It will be interesting to see the absolute meltdown that occurs when the next recession rolls around/investment moves on from tech.
  - sulam 8y ago
    Socially permissible is code for things that people approve or disapprove of as a general rule. Your business will not do very well if you do these socially impermissible things. People will not want to work for you if they have other choices, which means you will have the bottom of the employee barrel, customers will not want to hire you or use your products unless you make them much cheaper or better than the competition and that will negatively affect your margin and state and federal agencies will realize you’re a popular target and file suit for the employer discrimination you’ve outlined above. Good luck in your future endeavors, because you will need it.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
CalRobert 8y ago
"many civilized parts of the world" You should try visiting one of them.
- to_bpr 8y ago
  Strive to be better, Robert. This is Reddit-tier content and behaviour, maybe you would be more comfortable staying there?
  - CalRobert 8y ago
    If you look at my comment history I think I have a history of reasonably constructive additions to the community. I indulged in a bit of snark at what was, ultimately, a breathtakingly tone-deaf remark on your part. Speaking of, I might suggest laying off the MRA-ish diatribes. That's all I have to say on this matter. I will not be posting further.

by to_bpr 8y ago

fjones11 8y ago

Not sure I could disagree more with this. (Not to mention, this is exactly the kind of attitude that makes it hard for women to work in tech.) There are regular doctor's visits during pregnancy, yes, but that's a few hours a month. Surely even the smallest startups can absorb that kind of "disruption". And typically, since parents know well in advance when and how much leave they'll need to take, the team can plan around the leave and how to take over that work in someone's absence. In most cases, you'll have 5-6 months to prepare. I work for a small startup - fewer than 20 employees - and two of our team members are married. They had a baby and were both out for month (the mom took more time after that), and everything continued to function just fine because we'd planned for it. And if we needed them, they were just an email or text away. Finally, parents can be some of the most efficient workers on a team, and are great candidates for startups. They are experienced in time management and balancing multiple tasks and stakeholders.

amyjess 8y ago

Honestly, this just fuels my dislike of startups. Startup culture is toxic by nature. My advice is this: companies need to suck it up. We live in a society with rules and laws for a reason. If your business can't exist under those rules and laws, then it doesn't belong in society. Ventures that are detrimental to society simply shouldn't be allowed.

pancakes123 8y ago
Please don't think OP's comment is representative of other startups. It isn't.
workinthehead 8y ago
There is a giant, giant disconnect between "following laws" and "detrimental to society to the point where it needs to be forcibly prevented" and it doesn't speak well to your ability to reason that you've conflated the two.
- sctb 8y ago
  Personal attacks have no business on Hacker News. If you're going to comment, you need to leave those out. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

sulam 8y ago

I’d like you to try doing a mental exercise and see if you feel okay with what you’ve written here. s/pregnant/cancer/ and then ask yourself if you would feel comfortable inquiring about medical history during the hiring process.

workinthehead 8y ago
Most people would if it was socially permissible. We're talking about running a business, not a safe space.
- to_bpr 8y ago
  >We're talking about running a business, not a safe space. Most seem to have become disconnected with this reality in the era of our massively inflated economy (and tech industry). It will be interesting to see the absolute meltdown that occurs when the next recession rolls around/investment moves on from tech.
- sulam 8y ago
  Socially permissible is code for things that people approve or disapprove of as a general rule. Your business will not do very well if you do these socially impermissible things. People will not want to work for you if they have other choices, which means you will have the bottom of the employee barrel, customers will not want to hire you or use your products unless you make them much cheaper or better than the competition and that will negatively affect your margin and state and federal agencies will realize you’re a popular target and file suit for the employer discrimination you’ve outlined above. Good luck in your future endeavors, because you will need it.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

CalRobert 8y ago

"many civilized parts of the world" You should try visiting one of them.

to_bpr 8y ago
Strive to be better, Robert. This is Reddit-tier content and behaviour, maybe you would be more comfortable staying there?
- CalRobert 8y ago
  If you look at my comment history I think I have a history of reasonably constructive additions to the community. I indulged in a bit of snark at what was, ultimately, a breathtakingly tone-deaf remark on your part. Speaking of, I might suggest laying off the MRA-ish diatribes. That's all I have to say on this matter. I will not be posting further.