9 ms·

> Even something as simple as installing a library is a conceptual leap for these people (why wouldn't the software just come with everything needed to work?).

• CJefferson 8y ago
  Well pip install library needs root, which you probably don't have. So now you have to teach them about making, and acitvating, virtual environments. Also, they can't easily search through the packages in a nice GUI and just click on the one they want to install.
  • ekianjo 8y ago
    And pip s upgrade process for packages is almost non existent, while R supports that very, very easily.
    • Giroflex 8y ago
      Never had any trouble with `pip install --upgrade library`. Not sure if there's support for upgrading all packages at once, though.
      • ekianjo 8y ago
        There is no such support for multiple packages at once. R can do it though.
        • scaryclam 8y ago
          You can certainly update multiple packages at once using pip. Just use a requirements.txt file, which you should be doing anyway if you're using multiple packages (or just want to be able to reproduce your environment).
  • Giroflex 8y ago
    >pip install library needs root Hmm, not really. It's actually advised against [1]. [1] - https://askubuntu.com/questions/802544/is-sudo-pip-install-still-a-broken-practice https://askubuntu.com/questions/802544/is-sudo-pip-install-s...
    • newen 8y ago
      Pip install needs root on my ubuntu install, my lab's and university's old redhat servers and my windows for linux install. I've had to install anaconda python to get any real work done on all three systems. Anaconda works fine for me but I've not even had to think about anything to install packages in R.
      • sdabdoub 8y ago
        try pip install --user or virtualenvs
        • rspeer 8y ago
          Ubuntu doesn't ship with pip or virtualenv. In fact it ships with a version of Python where the built-in equivalent to virtualenv, pyvenv, is explicitly disabled. So you have to install extra Python packages, as root. You have to have that Python experience that guides you to install as few of them as you can, just enough so you can get started with a virtualenv, so you don't end up relying on your system Python environment. And this is really hard to explain to people who aren't deeply familiar with Python. "Never use sudo to install Python packages! Oh, you got errors. We obviously meant use sudo for two particular packages and never again after that." In the terrible case where you don't have root, you have to ignore Ubuntu's version of Python and compile it yourself from scratch. Hope the right development libraries are installed! Maybe I'm wrong and there's a method I've overlooked. If there is: please show me how to install a Python package on a fresh installation of Ubuntu 16.04, without ever using sudo, and I will happily spread the good news.
          • int_19h 8y ago
  • nzjrs 8y ago
    This is bad advice. Pip should be used in virtual environments, and not to install system packages
    • txcwpalpha 8y ago
      While you're right that it's bad advice, it also highlights the problem with pip that these less experienced people have. The ideal way to deal with Python packages is virtualenvs, but setting up a virtualenv, and then activating it every time you want to use it (or setting up tools to do it for you) is an incredibly huge headache for less experienced people to deal with. R doesn't require that whatsoever.
      • jupiter90000 8y ago
        Neither language requires an isolated dev environment, but it can help with avoiding headaches. As python has things like virtualenv and buildout, fortunately R has 'packrat' available, which provides a similar isolated/reproducible dev environment solution. https://rstudio.github.io/packrat/ https://rstudio.github.io/packrat/
    • int_19h 8y ago
      There's nothing wrong with pip for installing per-user packages outside of virtual environments.
• YeGoblynQueenne 8y ago
  >> Why would a newbie or someone who just wants to get analytical work done need anything beyond installing Python and doing `pip install library`? It's certainly orders of magnitude easier and faster than, say, using a C library. Except when it isn't. For instance, because some wheel fails to build because you're lacking the VC++ redistributable (or it's not where pip thinks it should be): C:\Users\YeGoblynQueenne\Documents\Python> pip install -U spacy Collecting spacy Downloading spacy-1.2.0.tar.gz (2.5MB) 100% |################################| 2.5MB 316kB/s Collecting numpy>=1.7 (from spacy) Downloading numpy-1.11.2-cp27-none-win_amd64.whl (7.4MB) 100% |################################| 7.4MB 143kB/s Collecting murmurhash<0.27,>=0.26 (from spacy) Downloading murmurhash-0.26.4-cp27-none-win_amd64.whl Collecting cymem<1.32,>=1.30 (from spacy) Downloading cymem-1.31.2-cp27-none-win_amd64.whl Collecting preshed<0.47.0,>=0.46.0 (from spacy) Downloading preshed-0.46.4-cp27-none-win_amd64.whl (55kB) 100% |################################| 61kB 777kB/s Collecting thinc<5.1.0,>=5.0.0 (from spacy) Downloading thinc-5.0.8-cp27-none-win_amd64.whl (361kB) 100% |################################| 368kB 747kB/s Collecting plac (from spacy) Downloading plac-0.9.6-py2.py3-none-any.whl Requirement already up-to-date: six in c:\program files\anaconda2\lib\site-packages (from spacy) Requirement already up-to-date: cloudpickle in c:\program files\anaconda2\lib\site-packages (from spacy) Collecting pathlib (from spacy) Downloading pathlib-1.0.1.tar.gz (49kB) 100% |################################| 51kB 800kB/s Collecting sputnik<0.10.0,>=0.9.2 (from spacy) Downloading sputnik-0.9.3-py2.py3-none-any.whl Collecting ujson>=1.35 (from spacy) Downloading ujson-1.35.tar.gz (192kB) 100% |################################| 194kB 639kB/s Collecting semver (from sputnik<0.10.0,>=0.9.2->spacy) Downloading semver-2.7.2.tar.gz Building wheels for collected packages: spacy, pathlib, ujson, semver Running setup.py bdist_wheel for spacy ... error Complete output from command "c:\program files\anaconda2\python.exe" -u -c "import setuptools, tokenize;__file__='c:\\users\\yegobl~1\\appdata\\local\\temp\\pip-build-7o0roa\\spacy\\setup.py';f=getattr(tokenize, 'open', open)(__file__);code=f.read().replace('\r\n', '\n');f.close();exec(compile(code, __file__, 'ex ec'))" bdist_wheel -d c:\users\yegobl~1\appdata\local\temp\tmpypkonqpip-wheel- --python-tag cp27: running bdist_wheel running build running build_py creating build creating build\lib.win-amd64-2.7 creating build\lib.win-amd64-2.7\spacy copying spacy\about.py -> build\lib.win-amd64-2.7\spacy [217 lines truncated for brevity] copying spacy\tests\sun.tokens -> build\lib.win-amd64-2.7\spacy\tests running build_ext building 'spacy.parts_of_speech' extension error: Microsoft Visual C++ 9.0 is required (Unable to find vcvarsall.bat). Get it from http://aka.ms/vcpython27 ---------------------------------------- Failed building wheel for spacy Running setup.py clean for spacy Running setup.py bdist_wheel for pathlib ... done Stored in directory: C:\Users\YeGoblynQueenne\AppData\Local\pip\Cache\wheels\2a\23\a5\d8803db5d631e9f391fe6defe982a238bf5483062eeb34e841 Running setup.py bdist_wheel for ujson ... error Complete output from command "c:\program files\anaconda2\python.exe" -u -c "import setuptools, tokenize;__file__='c:\\users\\yegobl~1\\appdata\\local\\temp\\pip-build-7o0roa\\ujson\\setup.py';f=getattr(tokenize, 'open', open)(__file__);code=f.read().replace('\r\n', '\n');f.close();exec(compile(code, __file__, 'ex ec'))" bdist_wheel -d c:\users\yegobl~1\appdata\local\temp\tmp8wtgikpip-wheel- --python-tag cp27: running bdist_wheel running build running build_ext building 'ujson' extension error: Microsoft Visual C++ 9.0 is required (Unable to find vcvarsall.bat). Get it from http://aka.ms/vcpython27 ---------------------------------------- Failed building wheel for ujson Running setup.py clean for ujson Running setup.py bdist_wheel for semver ... done Stored in directory: C:\Users\YeGoblynQueenne\AppData\Local\pip\Cache\wheels\d6\df\b6\0b318a7402342c6edca8a05ffbe8342fbe05e7d730a64db6e6 Successfully built pathlib semver Failed to build spacy ujson Installing collected packages: numpy, murmurhash, cymem, preshed, thinc, plac, pathlib, semver, sputnik, ujson, spacy Found existing installation: numpy 1.11.0 Uninstalling numpy-1.11.0: Successfully uninstalled numpy-1.11.0 Running setup.py install for ujson ... error Complete output from command "c:\program files\anaconda2\python.exe" -u -c "import setuptools, tokenize;__file__='c:\\users\\yegobl~1\\appdata\\local\\temp\\pip-build-7o0roa\\ujson\\setup.py';f=getattr(tokenize, 'open', open)(__file__);code=f.read().replace('\r\n', '\n');f.close();exec(compile(code, __file__, ' exec'))" install --record c:\users\yegobl~1\appdata\local\temp\pip-ibtvwu-record\install-record.txt --single-version-externally-managed --compile: running install running build running build_ext building 'ujson' extension error: Microsoft Visual C++ 9.0 is required (Unable to find vcvarsall.bat). Get it from http://aka.ms/vcpython27 ---------------------------------------- Command ""c:\program files\anaconda2\python.exe" -u -c "import setuptools, tokenize;__file__='c:\\users\\yegobl~1\\appdata\\local\\temp\\pip-build-7o0roa\\ujson\\setup.py';f=getattr(tokenize, 'open', open)(__file__);code=f.read().replace('\r\n', '\n');f.close();exec(compile(code, __file__, 'exec'))" install --recor d c:\users\yegobl~1\appdata\local\temp\pip-ibtvwu-record\install-record.txt --single-version-externally-managed --compile" failed with error code 1 in c:\users\yegobl~1\appdata\local\temp\pip-build-7o0roa\ujson\ Now that's newbie scary. Note that this is just one case where I was trying to install one particular package. I got a couple more examples like this in my installation diary, notably one when I tried to install matplotlib, this time on Windows Subystem for Linux, a.k.a. Ubuntu, and hit a conda bug that meant I had to use an older version of QT until upstream fixed it and other fun times like that.